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 Post subject: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Are there any tricks or tips to reduce the noise of an early Victor motor? Both my Victor Vs have been quite loud- the one that's now sold and the one I still have. I love these machines but it's like a Mercedes with a wide open exhaust- it just sounds wrong! :lol:

I have all the correct noise isolating washers in place and in good condition. The source of the noise seems to be backlash on the governor gear/ worm. Neither appear worn.

I'm tempted to do this to the worm gear :roll: :

Image

OK, OK, not really.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:34 am 
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Victor VI
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3258
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Try using STP oil additive, or something similar... it's like honey and adheres to the gears. It has worked on some of mine...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Deltona FL / Brampton ON
Curt A wrote:
Try using STP oil additive, or something similar... it's like honey and adheres to the gears. It has worked on some of mine...

I second that! I use STP mixed with oil on all my restorations.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:29 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Took the tip above under advisement and did this, but it did not help the noise. I noticed, however, that when the needle is on the turntable the noise stopped.

I also noticed that with the motor board open on its rest the noise is quite diminished.

As an experiment, I checked for fore- aft and side- to- side play where the spindle comes through the top of the metal motor housing- and there is substantial play here- probably .010 at minimum in all directions. I don't think this is normal. Is it?

This motor has had a rough life as it has a slightly bent spindle also. I have advertised in the Trader for a spindle but no dice, unfortunately.

Am I on the right track? How should I correct this?


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:26 am 
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Victor II
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 338
Location: South Carolina
George,

Cabinet noises often amplify the sounds from the motor. Could you use felt under the motor and also under the edges of the motor board?

Also, my Victor III has three felt washers AND a square rubber pad on it. I don't know if the pad is factory but it looks like a good idea.

Could your mainsprings have been replaced? In a pocketwatch, new mainsprings can be too powerful and cause the watch to "knock." A phonograph that whirs at idle but runs quietly under load might have some backlash from the gears due to an overly potent spring.

Just a few possibilites. Good luck

Charles


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Hi Charles:

The motor is well insulated from the board.
The board has felt insulation where it meets the cabinet.
The noise stops dead when the needle is on the record.

All this leads me to believe that excess side play at the spindle is the culprit, but I'd like some verification that the play is excessive.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:41 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
In partial answer to my own question... none of my other Victor or HMV motors have this play by comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Well, it was time to service the machine anyways. I found a mainspring that was ready to break, so I got 3 new main springs, new governor springs, and a straight spindle from George and cleaned/ overhauled/ adjusted.

Now the noise is even worse. :( In fact, it's so bad it's interfering with the music. Before fixing everything the noise would diminish greatly with the needle on the record, but not now. In fact everything I've tried to correct this seems to just make the noise worse! For example, I adjust the position of the governor- it gets worse. I put the governor back where I started- it gets even worse. It almost sounds like a broken governor spring but it's not.

Before, with the motor board up the motor ran *almost* quiet. Now it's noisy with the motor board up, noisier with the motor board closed, and even noisier still with the turntable on. Motor runs strong and the speed is dead even.

Using a listening device, I find the source of the noise to be at the speed regulator side of the governor where the little sleeve it rides in mounts. I can replicate the noise with the turntable when the springs are wound down. Turn the TT and it's knock- knock on the governor.

The drive gear on the spindle LOOKS fine, but could it be worn? Seems to be a lot of slop there.

Incidentally, with the replacement spindle, the side to side play where the spindle comes through the motor plate is barely detectable.

I've never had one like this. :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1635
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Well, shoot.

Replaced the governor drive gear with a new one. Discovered that the original was installed upside down. I had just put it together the same way it came apart. When I discovered this by looking at other Vic V motor pics on Google, I thought I had this solved.

Unfortunately... no difference. The noise of the motor still interferes with the music... even with an HMV No. 4 repro and a loud tone needle.

Such a beautiful machine, too. :(


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 Post subject: Re: The Victor Cement Mixer
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am
Posts: 2758
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...
Could it be that the top bearing on the spindle is worn? If you apply pressure to the spindle while the motor is turning, does it have any effect?

I have a Talkophone which has had motor noise problems; and the culprit seems to be that bearing. Could you try bushing it?

Bill


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