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 Post subject: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:49 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Western New York
I was just gifted a Victrola XIV, and I'm planning on using it to learn about restoring machines. I'm not really worried about preserving the original finish, since the machine is pretty much black after spending 25+ years in a damp basement. I am planning on trying my hand at a refinish.

Before I go any further, I wanted to get some advice regarding the veneer on the back of the cabinet, which has lifted quite a bit. Is it at all possible to repair/reglue the original veneer in this situation, or does it need to be replaced completely? There are no missing pieces of veneer, but it is warped enough that I'm not sure it can be flattened back to shape. I've never had to deal with an issue like this before, and didn't find much in a search through the forum. I'd be grateful for any tips you folks can offer!


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- Nathan
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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Victor II
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 476
Location: South Carolina
Nathan,

Your secret weapon will be heat, glue, and lots and lots of clamps. My XIV was not messed up that badly but it was starting to get a peel going on the back, sides, and doors. You need to get some hide glue crystals from online--don't mess up like me and use wood glue. (Hide glue is reversible by heating.)

You're also going to want to re-glue the boards under the veneer, as they look to have come unglued. This is natural. Hide glue doesn't like heat or moisture. My XIV was almost to have a leg fall off--and me cranking it up was nearly the last nail in its coffin before I glued the wobbles out of it.

The Victor-Victrola page mentions flattening warped veneer with a steam iron. Your finish is pretty far gone anyway but still put a towel between it and the iron, to keep anything from sticking.

Hey fellow phono-freaks, let's give this guy a hand here--and if he's encountered a mess of all messes then let's tell where to find new veneer.


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Western New York
Thanks! You actually recommended exactly what I was thinking I would try. After all, there really isn't much left to lose in this case. At this point, it'll probably be a little while before I attempt anything. Once it finally stops snowing, I can pull this thing out to the garage and have far more space to work with.


VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
Nathan,

Your secret weapon will be heat, glue, and lots and lots of clamps. My XIV was not messed up that badly but it was starting to get a peel going on the back, sides, and doors. You need to get some hide glue crystals from online--don't mess up like me and use wood glue. (Hide glue is reversible by heating.)

You're also going to want to re-glue the boards under the veneer, as they look to have come unglued. This is natural. Hide glue doesn't like heat or moisture. My XIV was almost to have a leg fall off--and me cranking it up was nearly the last nail in its coffin before I glued the wobbles out of it.

The Victor-Victrola page mentions flattening warped veneer with a steam iron. Your finish is pretty far gone anyway but still put a towel between it and the iron, to keep anything from sticking.

Hey fellow phono-freaks, let's give this guy a hand here--and if he's encountered a mess of all messes then let's tell where to find new veneer.
- Nathan


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1830
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Two secret weapons you need in your arsenal if you are going to do veneering work:

#1: https://www.veneersupplies.com/products ... -Glue.html

#2: https://www.veneersupplies.com/products ... ioner.html

Use #2 as directed and don't try to rush the process. It'll work just fine if you spray it under the veneer panel where it's lifted off.

Then inject your #1 up under there, let it dry, and using a steam iron on low with no steam, iron the top layer till it bonds.

I do complex veneering all the time in my "day job"... Mercedes Burl and Zebrano dash pieces. I have only used my big expensive vacuum press a handful of times since discovering this method about 10 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Victor VI
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3507
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Thanks for that information, George... just what I was looking for...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2316
I would recommend buying a copy of The Furniture Doctor by George Grotz. An excellent general reference for all kinds of furniture repairs. You can usually find a copy on ebay or Amazon for a few bucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer Repair tips needed
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:14 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:50 am
Posts: 6
The underlying issue with this piece is that base boards are separating as you can see the open seam in the center. This allows moisture/expansion of the joint and separation of the veneer substrate from those base boards. Usually, cabinet restorers remove all the veneer and substrate to fix the base issue by gluing and clamping all the loose seams of base boards to avoid any future movement/expansion. If this is not done, it's going to happen again, even if you install new veneer where the veneer might even start to crack as the seam expands.
However, if you can somehow glue those open seams from the bottom without glue seeping out of the top under the veneer when you clamp, you might be able to save that top substrate and veneer. As said previously, dry heat and glue is the recipe for success in straightening out veneer. I've had success using an old electric iron (NO STEAM) over an old piece of T-shirt to first flatten out the veneer, then apply glue, unless the hide glue is still active, then apply glue, and use the iron until flat then clamp. The more clamps the better!

Best of luck,

Britt


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