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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 5434
Location: Albany, Oregon
Are you filling the grain? Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 441
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
I will be, though I haven't yet.
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 441
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
I would like to hear some ideas on filling the grain. I have been reading quite a bit on using Shellac to fill the grain. Anyone like to comment? :coffee:
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:50 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm
Posts: 581
Location: North Central Iowa
DGPros wrote:
I would like to hear some ideas on filling the grain. I have been reading quite a bit on using Shellac to fill the grain. Anyone like to comment? :coffee:


It takes many of coats of shellac (and block sanding between coats) to do that, unless you are planning to 'french polish' it, which is a fair amount of work and pretty hard to do in tight places. And the rottenstone is the filler for the most part with that finish.

I usually buy pigment and add it to the "natural" oil based grain filler and that seems to work well for me. I've never had much luck with the water based fillers as they dry too fast. If the cabinet I'm finishing needs to be a dark or intense color (and I would put mahogany in that camp) I also stain it before I fill the grain and usually stain it again after. I've never had much luck adding stain to the grain filler and have had it turn white a few times after I've done it that way. You also need to make sure the grain filler is completely dry before you topcoat it, or it will eventually turn white for some reason that I'm not sure about. I've had that happen also and it's very frustrating. I had one 20's radio cabinet do that three times for some reason and I never did figure out what was going on with that thing. That was when I started to just buy pigment and mixing it with the filler. You used to be able to get grain filler in 8-10 different colors, but not anymore and I would guess they were using pigment for the color in those days. The pigment works better anyway as it doesn't stain the wood very much at all, and will just fill the grain in whatever color the pigment is of course. http://earthpigments.com/ is the place I've bought it from lately, but there are others. Victor says they used powdered seaweed and I'm not sure if they stained the cabinet before or after that filler was used, but that seems to have worked well for them. I wonder if they dyed the seaweed before they pulverized it? And what color they might have chosen? It's too bad there isn't better documentation on that end of it.

Most companies also added some other resins to the shellac to get it to flow out nicely. Most of the old finishing books I have mention that in the sections on "spirit varnishes" but they are usually pretty vague about what was generally used. I suppose in 1910 is was considered common knowledge with the folks that needed to know such things. The guy I used to paint for called it "tough shellac" and Bill just said that they were able to get a glassy smooth finish with very little effort when they added that stuff to the spirit varnishes. But he was born in 1917 and wasn't really old enough to know for sure what those old boys were up to. He also HATED those finishes and couldn't understand what on earth my problem was with urethane.

Your Victor will look nice. If you have some scraps of a Victrola you've junked out, I would do a little bit of experimenting on them until you are satisfied with the colors, et. Good luck with it now, Earl.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:59 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:57 pm
Posts: 373
Location: greater bubbaville
I always have trouble filling the grain. I know it's more work for me than it should be and I never get it but half right. In the end I cheat a bit with a product named Aqua Coat. You can fill those pesky mahogany dimples in the shellac using a credit card as a squeegee. Saves a lot of time!
-bill


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:59 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:00 pm
Posts: 107
[ Your VI looks like it should turn out really nicely for you. And although it is aggravating when someone does go over an old finish like that to "improve" it. Those people often did keep that stuff from going to the landfill and even if a collector doesn't find some of those old-worn finishes ugly, whoever had it in the past thought it was bad enough in the past that it needed something done to it, so there is that. And judging from the "How many phonographs are in your front room" thread, there are a lot of wives out there that absolutely won't have you cluttering up the front room with phonographs no matter how valuable they are today. We can imagine the feeling towards those things in the 1950's when you'd have trouble getting $15 out of one no matter what the condition. [/quote]

My wife is certainly one of those wives. She would love for me to move out the collection and her "solution" to any old cabinet with a worn finish is to say it should be painted white! I have not let her as I consider that idea to be a divorcing offense!!


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:11 am 
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Victor IV
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Those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who could not hear the music. Nietzsche
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:55 am
Posts: 1193
Gary,

Do all four corners of your lid use corrugate nails, on its underside?

Only three corners of mine have them, the other does not, and never had.
I removed the old filler and will refill it with wood.
By the looks of it, it does make me wonder if this was a factory error and they patched it?

Attachment:
Lid Corner.png
Lid Corner.png [ 678.79 KiB | Viewed 200 times ]

Also, are your lid and cabinet marked with, what I'm calling, part numbers?

Attachment:
Part Numbers.png
Part Numbers.png [ 547.89 KiB | Viewed 200 times ]


Just for added information, mine is a numeral 6 and serial number is 5092.

Thanks,
James.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI stripping and refinishing project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:06 am 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 441
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
Yes James, all 4 corners have it on mine. I searched high and low but can't find any semblance of #s on my cabinet or lid. Also thanks for the info on your techniques with fillers, grain etc. I hope to do some more work shortly.
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat


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