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 Post subject: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Victor Jr
“What’s the worst that can happen.” There are times when I rue the day I say these words.
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:36 pm
Posts: 9
Hey folks,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to get the motor out of the case? The crank pokes through the front and I can't see any apparent way to either detach it or slide it through the hole. How do you do this? Show me the way, grandmasters of the grafonola :D .

The photo shown is just a random one pulled of the internet. It said the size was 400x300, so it should be easily viewable.

Thanks,
Forrest


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:15 am 
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Victor III
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:03 am
Posts: 865
Location: Dover, UK
Just unscrew the crank (winding handle to us Brits) anticlockwise. It might need a bit of judicious force or a slight 'shock' to get it started unscrewing, as it probably hasn't been off for many decades.
BCN thorn needles made to the original 1920s specifications
www.burmesecolourneedles.com


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:52 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Orchorsol wrote:
Just unscrew the crank (winding handle to us Brits) anticlockwise. It might need a bit of judicious force or a slight 'shock' to get it started unscrewing, as it probably hasn't been off for many decades.


To avoid trouble in the future, give the threads a touch of oil before you replace the handle.


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:14 am 
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Victor Jr
“What’s the worst that can happen.” There are times when I rue the day I say these words.
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:36 pm
Posts: 9
Sadly I’ve tried this already. The winding gear does not lock, but rather goes counterclockwise with the crank, so there’s nothing for it to push off of, so to speak. Unless this is a fundamentally different design from a Victrola, shouldn’t the winding gear lock so that the crank doesn’t fly backward after winding it? It does lift up enough so that I can touch the motor, so perhaps I could temporarily jam the winding gear so that I can get the crank off. But the matter of how is the question...


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1724
F_R_Parker1 wrote:
Sadly I’ve tried this already. The winding gear does not lock, but rather goes counterclockwise with the crank, so there’s nothing for it to push off of, so to speak. Unless this is a fundamentally different design from a Victrola, shouldn’t the winding gear lock so that the crank doesn’t fly backward after winding it? It does lift up enough so that I can touch the motor, so perhaps I could temporarily jam the winding gear so that I can get the crank off. But the matter of how is the question...


The non return spring ( or pawl ) isn't working properly but isn't broken , remove the motor screws from the motor board and lift it off , you can then remove the winder by holding the motor winding shaft with a grip , and see what needs to be done to the non return spring


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:03 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:38 pm
Posts: 770
Location: United Kingdom
There are no motorboard screws, so it depends on how the motor board is fixed. On my Columbia 163 (US model) you remove the brass strips from the edges of the motorboard, then the two bolts on the outside back of the machine. The motorboard and internal horn are then lifted out as one unit. But if the 161 is of the same design as the British versions of this machine (The 113 and 113A) then the motor board is an integral part of the case, and as such is non-removable. The motor is mounted on a plate which is dropped into a cut-out in the fixed motorboard, and is removed by undoing the bolts round the edge of the plate, and lifting the plate and motor out. BUT, with the winding handle attached, the motor cannot be lifted out far enough to have access to the winding shaft. I would be interested to know which method of motor mounting is used in the 161.


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Victor Jr
“What’s the worst that can happen.” There are times when I rue the day I say these words.
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:36 pm
Posts: 9
Mine is held in with four screws in the motor plate, which were missing when I purchased the machine. I can lift the board and motor up almost completely out of the case, save for the crank. I was able to look inside and see a piece of metal akin to a cotter pin holding the crank in place. When I crank the motor, the pin moves within its slot, so I should be able to pull it with some pliers and be off to the races. I’ll let y’all know if it works.


EDIT: I got it! As it turns out the platter was seized to the spindle, so I hammered that off, unscrewed the motor plate, pulled the cotter pin b/c the crank was seized in the threaded receptacle, and pulled the motor. On to cleaning! Thanks for the help thus far and I’ll tell y’all when it’s done.

EDIT TWO: I have cleaned everything except the spring barrel due to it being seized shut (I assume due to an already tight fitting lid paired with dried grease). I’m soaking it overnight in Paint Thinner. Should the spring be broken, does anyone know of a place I can find a replacement (like Golden State Phonographs)? I feel that the spring would be a degree rarer. I don’t know why I say this, I reckon it’s just a hunch.


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Victor IV
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 1330
Location: South Carolina
Measure the width of the spring, get an idea of what kind of attachments are on the ends (bent? Pear-shaped holes? What has it got?) and see how long it is.

Columbia springs in the early years tended to go rather weak. I have a 1909ish Columbia Graphophone, the non-portable horn type, that had a double-spring motor. It had never been serviced properly and had its original springs. By now, 110 years later, they were quite weak indeed, and they were not fit to reuse. I bought a pair of new springs and they fit right in.

I'm not sure where you are located but there are people who sell spare parts. With springs, new is better than used. A Columbia portable probably has a Garrard motor so you may have a very easy time finding the parts--Garrard is common and extremely high in quality.

I traded for a Model 202 Grafonola so should be doing some of these repairs myself, very shortly. I moved & have lots of vintage 78s but no gramophone here with me... Well, that can be remedied.


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:56 am 
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Victor Jr
“What’s the worst that can happen.” There are times when I rue the day I say these words.
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:36 pm
Posts: 9
I’m just a couple of states north of you in Virginia :D . Many thanks for the info about the springs, I will go ahead and simply replace it then, which I’m sure will save me many headaches down the road. Now if I could only get the spring barrel open...


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 Post subject: Re: How to get Columbia 161 portable out of its case?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:35 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1724
F_R_Parker1 wrote:
I’m just a couple of states north of you in Virginia :D . Many thanks for the info about the springs, I will go ahead and simply replace it then, which I’m sure will save me many headaches down the road. Now if I could only get the spring barrel open...


"If it ain't broke don't fix it " If the spring(s) is/are intact they will be fine just need a good clean an relubrication


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