Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

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Brent
Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:55 pm
Location: Oregon

Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by Brent »

Hello Everyone, I've got a Victor VV-IX that when wound the motor does not spin and after about 10-20 turns on the crank it sounds as if the spring slips and unwinds. I took the turntable off and then noticed it would run very slowly if wound only a couple times before the spring slips or does whatever it is doing. So... Next I remove the motor and take out the first spring. Everything looks ok to me from what I can tell. Not broken. Should I take out the second spring for inspection? I'm kind of lost here... Am I missing somthing or should I clean everything up, re-grease it all. Put it back together and see if she works?
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Spring.jpg

gramophoneshane
Victor VI
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by gramophoneshane »

oops! I replied to this, but wasn't logged in for some reason. The responce should appear once the moderators check it.

martinola
Victor III
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Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by martinola »

Hey Brent.

Since you are this far into the project, I'd note the direction of the coils for both springs and then go ahead and pull out the other for inspection. At that point you can clean and re-grease if it's OK or replace if it's not. If nothing else, that way you'll ensure the outside ends of the springs are properly hooked-in. The VV-IX is a nice little machine. Once it's all back together you'll have a real nice player. Good luck!

Martin

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SgtSack
Victor Jr
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:51 am
Personal Text: V V - I X
Location: Sparks, NV

Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by SgtSack »

Perfect... Just picked up one of these machines at a garage sale (VV-IX) and noticed it doesn't coil when wound. I'm going to do the same repair/cleaning as suggested, will let you know. I'm also thinking coil doesn't grab on outside.

Thanks


**ADDED**
Looks like a good ol cleaning is in order... The more I read and investigate, it's been a while since last time this machine/motor was lubed. Also some rust on turn table, dirt and grime on teeth and loose screws.

Any suggestions on repairing this model would be awesome. Tips on taking it apart, cleaning and assembly... Looks like I found something more at this garage sail... Like a project and maybe a hobby.
Player came with a Bing Crosby collection of records...fun times.

Thanks Again,
Sack

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Henry
Victor V
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by Henry »

SgtSack wrote: Player came with a Bing Crosby collection of records...fun times.
Sack
Including the super rare and fabulously valuable "White Christmas," I hope!

Congrats on acquiring the IX. You should get many hours of good listening from it. And there are plenty of very knowledgeable folks on the board who will share their expertise as you restore your machine.

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SgtSack
Victor Jr
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Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:51 am
Personal Text: V V - I X
Location: Sparks, NV

Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by SgtSack »

If you want, I'll post the titles in the 12 record collection. Can't wait to listen... No White Christmas, sorry.

I am going to need a few parts before I can listen, unless you consider manual turning... ;)
I'm looking online now for parts, only think i need one (speed governor missing two weights) maybe
I'll need to replace coils if they can't be repaired. Still trying to figure best way to take them
off to clean them. Don't want to damage anything in the attempt.

I'll keep you informed and up to date.

gramophoneshane
Victor VI
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Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by gramophoneshane »

Im still wondering why my original post (as a guest) hasn't shown up.
It must have been sent, as when I submitted it, I got a message saying it would be added once the moderators had approved it, and this was after answering a question to prove I was human.
I've also noticed that quite a few guest posts have appeared since.

Moderators?????

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alang
VTLA
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Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by alang »

I cleaned and replaced several mainsprings before and I never found it that hard to do, thanks to the excellent videos from gramophoneshane. These really encouraged me to take on my first mainspring a while ago. Thanks Shane :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbPa-VWAzSY[/youtube]
Yesterday I did the springs on my VV-IX, my first single barrel two spring motor. I found the re-assembly of the bottom spring very challenging, I had to redo it 3 times before I got the first outer coils to stay at the bottom where they should be. As a tip for anyone doing this the first time, make sure you completely push down each of the first outer coils while you put them in. There is no way you will be able to get them down once the spring is in. Oh yes, and you definitely want to use gloves for this. :!:

I also found that one of the springs had part of the inner L shape broken off, that's why the machine did not work in the first place. Since the spring looked good and strong otherwise I decided to try and reshape the end. It's not easy because there is not much space to move in the middle coil. I cut the remaining edge off with pliers, red-heated the end with a butane torch, and then did my best to form a new L shape with needle nose pliers. It took quite a while and quite some strenght, but in the end I got it into a shape that's not pretty but working :lol:

Question to gramophoneshane: do you grease your mainsprings before assembly, like suggested in the DD Motor Repair Manual or do you install dry and grease them after install? I always grease them first, but that makes the install even more challenging, especially with strong springs or dual spring barrels.

Thanks
Andreas

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antique1973
Victor IV
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Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by antique1973 »

alang wrote:I cleaned and replaced several mainsprings before and I never found it that hard to do, thanks to the excellent videos from gramophoneshane. These really encouraged me to take on my first mainspring a while ago. Thanks Shane :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbPa-VWAzSY[/youtube]
Yesterday I did the springs on my VV-IX, my first single barrel two spring motor. I found the re-assembly of the bottom spring very challenging, I had to redo it 3 times before I got the first outer coils to stay at the bottom where they should be. As a tip for anyone doing this the first time, make sure you completely push down each of the first outer coils while you put them in. There is no way you will be able to get them down once the spring is in. Oh yes, and you definitely want to use gloves for this. :!:

I also found that one of the springs had part of the inner L shape broken off, that's why the machine did not work in the first place. Since the spring looked good and strong otherwise I decided to try and reshape the end. It's not easy because there is not much space to move in the middle coil. I cut the remaining edge off with pliers, red-heated the end with a butane torch, and then did my best to form a new L shape with needle nose pliers. It took quite a while and quite some strenght, but in the end I got it into a shape that's not pretty but working :lol:

Question to gramophoneshane: do you grease your mainsprings before assembly, like suggested in the DD Motor Repair Manual or do you install dry and grease them after install? I always grease them first, but that makes the install even more challenging, especially with strong springs or dual spring barrels.

Thanks
Andreas

I have been thinking about a better way to distribute the grease through the coils myself.
I am going to pull the springs on a 2 spring Victor soon and plan to put some grease in
the barrels before reinserting the springs, then more grease on top of the coils as usual.
I am theorizing that this may help to coat the springs more effectively?? I will report back
how it went when I get it done.

dennman6
Victor I
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Indianapolis, U.S. of A.

Re: Working on a Victor VV-IX Spring Problem

Post by dennman6 »

This thread makes me think about attempting a regreasing of springs myself...on a 1926 Victor Credenza that has a FOUR-spring motor. Walt Sommers did a beautiful restoration on the Orthophonic soundbox in May, so the Credenza sounds excellent now. BUT-it thumps a little when it plays, which tells me it needs a cleaning & new grease. Holds steady, true speed though. Having never tried this, I'm thinking of getting a copy of "The Complete Talking Machine". I've seen & downloaded an Edison service guide on spring removal, but that was a two-spring machine. I have the motorboard of an Amberola VIII out in the garage on the workbench-I could start experimenting with that. Then I have a 1926 Brunswick Panatrope 106 portable with a single-spring motor-I COULD graduate to that. And then would come the Credenza...maybe. The manual labor & messy greasiness of the job doesn't deter me,but handling all four springs in the proper sequence seems a tad daunting. One false move & I've screwed up a beautiful machine. How many of you have gone beyond the two-spring motors to three and four-spring machines?

Dennis Forkel

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