Shellack vs. Tung Oil/Varnish vs. Wax finish advice needed

[alang]

I just stripped the case of my Royal Talking Machine rear mount horn phonograph and now I'm wondering what finish to use. The case is quarter sawn oak with some black discoloration at the rear corner (probably old water damage?). Until now I have only worked with shellack, but found it quite difficult to work with, especially to avoid runs. I've read that Tung Oil or Varnish dries much slower and also gives a nice finish, but I've never seen it. Other people like simple wax finishes, but I'm afraid that it may turn out to be sticky and a dust trap. I'm looking for opinions and experiences with either of these finishes. It should also make sense for the approximate period, I think 1910ish...
Thanks
Andreas

[Tinkerbell]

If I'm not mistaken, varnish, shellac and pure tung oil are all time-appropriate finishes for the time period you estimate. Perhaps others like Brad or Boyle6 (who are both into woodworking) can pipe up here (or correct me if I'm wrong), but I believe that the majority of phonograph finishes for your time frame were varnish and shellac.

A hand-rubbed, tung oil finish was more commonly found on furniture or wood floors. I personally prefer the look of a hand-rubbed, tung oil finish myself... but it is a LOT of work because it requires a number of thin coats rubbed in with rather long drying times in between, and then periodic applications forever after to keep it looking beautiful. It is very rewarding IF you have the time to spend on it, but then again, this is just my opinion.

A word of note about tung oil... you can find pure tung oil and polymerized. There are even some brands that are labeled tung oil finish which do not even have tung oil in them! If you choose to go with an oil finish, make sure you are buying specifically what you want.

PS - Forgot to mention your question about waxes...

Paste wax, often used to protect finishes, is sometimes used to finish bare wood furniture. This is most successful on hard, close-grained woods, such as maple, that have been sanded absolutely smooth. Paste wax can be applied directly over prepared bare or stained wood; thinned shellac can be used as a sealer coat.

That said, wax is most commonly used as a last step on any finishing job.

[Brad]

I would use the same finish that was original to the machine which was most likely Shellac. I got very good results using shellac to refinish an edison upright by partially thinning Zinzer amber (orange) shellac and wiping on with a rolled up pad. The nice thing about shellac is if you don't like the results, it is easily removed. (There is a post on this board from me on beginning restoration that describes what I did)

As far as the dark stain, those types of issues are usually tackled with by bleaching the wood. I have never tried this. Personally, I like the look of age to my machines and would celebrate the staining as part of the history of the machine.

[alang]

Tinkerbell and Brad,

thanks for your responses. I don't know what finish was originally on this machine, because it was in such bad shape when I got it. I read a lot recently about people preferring varnishes and oils over shellack, that's why I asked the question. Based on your responses I'll probably stay with shellack, maybe try pads instead of brushes this time.

Regarding the dark stains, I also prefer not to over-restore. Just wanted to hear what others are doing.

Thanks again
Andreas

[Brad]

Andreas,

I too was unsure about Shellac, but as I have used it, I have grown to love it. In the thread I mentioned, http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=2857 there is discussion about a few different ways to apply it. I found that by having a squirt bottle filled with shellac and quickly squirting it into a saturated pad gave me good results.

Good luck.

[alang]

Thanks again Brad. I'll give that technique a try. My problem with shellack is that I seem to have a hard time resisting the urge to go back and forth like with regular paint. Also always seem to miss some runs at the edges. I think I completely washed off my VV-50 about 3 times and started from scratch because I was not happy.
Andreas

[ColoradoPhonograf]

I think Brad gave some good advice and his link to a previous project shows the potential of using a shellac finish. I have also used the "Bullseye" orange shellac with time to cure and sanding with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper between coats. One trick I did discover on my own was to let the final coat dry for 7 to 10 days and then rub it down with 000 steel wool (really scrubbing it) to minimize brush marks and even light runs in the finish. When you do this the shellac turns a grayish-brown color but don't worry about it. Once you have it to a very smooth finish, you clean it off very well with a clean cloth to get rid of any dust and debris.

The trick is to then take a hair blow dryer with a medium heat setting and gently run back and forth over the finish (probably 6" -9" away) and you'll discover the warmth will bring the finish to a nice perfectly smooth gloss finish. If you don't want it a high gloss then just don't heat it up as much. You can stop when it reaches a semi-gloss finish. It works very well and is quite easy to do.

It does work with a layer or two of shellac over decals and you can eliminate the replacement decal "edges" with great results.

Good luck with the restoration.

ColoradoPhonograf

[alang]

The trick is to then take a hair blow dryer with a medium heat setting and gently run back and forth over the finish (probably 6" -9" away) and you'll discover the warmth will bring the finish to a nice perfectly smooth gloss finish. If you don't want it a high gloss then just don't heat it up as much. You can stop when it reaches a semi-gloss finish. It works very well and is quite easy to do.
ColoradoPhonograf

Thanks, that's a great idea. I never thought about using heat to smooth out the finish coat of shellac, even though I noticed that it melts with heat. I once tried to attach a grille cloth with some of those iron on fabric strips and noticed that the shellac on the back of the grille melted and acted as a glue for the grille cloth. So now I just stretch the cloth over the back of the grille and go slightly with the iron over it. Works like a charm and no other glue necessary.

Andreas

[gibsonj]

Andreas,

I too was unsure about Shellac, but as I have used it, I have grown to love it. In the thread I mentioned, http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=2857 there is discussion about a few different ways to apply it. I found that by having a squirt bottle filled with shellac and quickly squirting it into a saturated pad gave me good results.

Good luck.

Brad and others,

Have you ever sprayed shellac with an HVLP sprayer? I have read about very good results on several woodworking forums, using relatively inexpensive equipment, like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volum ... 44677.html

I'm sure it would take some practice, like any spraying would, but thought I would ask if anyone had stories to share.

Thanks.

John

[Brad]

I have an HVLP system but have never tried shellac. I have heard that it is possible, though. With HVLP, success, or extreme frustration, is heavily dependent on several factors: Air volume, needle size, viscosity, and temperature. The last one is the hardest to control. I have never been too happy with my HVLP experiences and every time I have sought help/advice, it all came down to viscosity and temp.

Having said that, I have no experience, or information, on spraying shellac that says either of these parameters will have a large impact on results.

I have found that wiping shellac is easy enough.

I hope I haven't scared you off, just relaying my experiences and lack of knowledge