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 Post subject: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:11 am 
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Victor I
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:42 pm
Posts: 177
Location: Doylestown, PA
Hi All,

I'm rebuilding the motor on my VV-XIV and I am running into a problem with the springs. I recently opened both spring barrels and removed and cleaned each spring. When removing the springs, I thought I took note of the direction of the winding, but I think I made a mistake. Here is what I did:

For the barrel closest to the crank, the winding order is as follows:

The inner spring was wound clockwise, the outer spring counter-clockwise.

For the other barrel, I put the springs in the same way. The inner spring inserted clockwise and the outer counter-clockwise.

Would someone be able to confirm whether the winding order for each barrel is correct? I read on Wyatt’s site that the spring might be slipping “because one or more pins (arbor or barrel) are not engaged”. Is there any way to confirm this?

Thanks,
Kevin

(Double-click the video above or click this link to watch the video on YouTube in high quality.)

The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.

- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2507
Yep, one of the spring centres isn't grabbing the slot on the post properly. It's trying, but not quite.
Usually if it's the outside slipping, you can wind it up quite a bit before it slips, and you'll get a louder noise due to the added tension stored in the spring.
Again, the 1st picture below is of an HMV, but if your springs had a bent over outer end, and your barrel has the shaped brackets as pictured below, then the springs can only go in oneway...so as the bent end can hook into the bracket.

The second picture shows the direction of the springs. Those marked "C" go clockwise, and those marked "A" go anti-clockwise (counter clockwise).

As for the spring centres, I've found it's a good idea to insert the gear/arbor after you've loaded each spring. That way you can check the centre of the spring is a nice tight fit over the arbor, and that the shaped end is grabbing the slot in the arbor properly.
Just insert the gear/arbor and give it a turn by hand, and looking into the barrel, you'll be able to see if it's grabbing well. If it's not, you can remove the gear, and squeeze the centre of the spring in on itself with a pair of pliers, and then reinsert the gear to check again.
When you're happy the spring is grabbing properly, remove the gear, and load your next spring in.
Once the top spring is in, you can check the centre of that spring with the gear/arbor. Once it's ok, remove the arbor & put the lid on the barrel.

You'll have to remove your barrels, and turn the gear/arbor on each side of the barrel to determine which spring is slipping. If you're lucky, it will be the second spring installed, and you'll just have to remove the lid of the barrel, & squeeze the centre in a little.
If it's the spring in the bottom, you'll have to remove the top spring again, along with the spring divider plate, so you can get to the bottom spring centre properly to squeeze it inward.


Attachments:
HMV barrel 32-34 005.JPG
HMV barrel 32-34 005.JPG [ 382.27 KiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
Victor 4 spring.jpg
Victor 4 spring.jpg [ 26.95 KiB | Viewed 1365 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:15 am 
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Victor I
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:42 pm
Posts: 177
Location: Doylestown, PA
Hi gramophoneshane,

Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed post. The order you suggested did not seem to work for some reason. I did some additional research and determined the correct order to be:

Image

Regards,
Kevin
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.

- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2507
Are you sure?
You turn the crank clockwise, which also turns the cog attached to the crank inlet shaft in the same direction.
This cog then turns the 2nd cog attached to the arbor in an anti-clockwise direction.
Therefore the first spring also needs to be anti-clockwise, so the arbor can pull it in the same direction.

This is unless the Victor motor has a 3rd cog between the crank gear and arbor gear??
Both barrels should be loaded the same way too, making them interchangable.


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:38 pm 
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Victor I
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:42 pm
Posts: 177
Location: Doylestown, PA
I do remember the first barrel closest to the crank was clockwise on the inner and counter clockwise on the outer spring. I forgot to take note of the second barrel. As for a third cog, I don't recall seeing one. I do recall seeing that the spring on the inner of the first barrel is connected directly to the arbor which has the cog on the outside. This must be where the magic happens. I'm not exactly sure how it works.

I actually called Victrola Repair Service (http://www.victrolarepairservice.com/) and spoke to a guy named Rick. He was the one who suggested clockwise, counter-clockwise, counter-clockwise, clockwise. He explained to me the reason, but to be honest with you, I don't remember what he said.

After taking the springs out and putting them back in the way he suggested, the motor stated working again. I have been playing records for two days now... Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to reply to my post. :D

Regards,
Kevin
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.

- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)


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 Post subject: Re: Trouble with repacking springs - slippage
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:16 pm
Posts: 1
I thought I would reply to this post to help anyone who needs to know the spring direction on a 4 spring 2 barrel victrola motor, The spring direction is as follows: the can nearest to the winding gear is wound like a regular 2 spring motor, first spring at the bottom of the can is clockwise, outside spring is counter clockwise. This can mounts with the side that opens toward the winding gear. The second can is first spring counter clockwise and outer spring is clockwise. This can mounts facing away from the other can with the side that opens facing outside. Both cans face away from each other. This way is tested and works. Can nearest winding gear is clockwise/counterclockwise, other can is counterclockwise/clockwise. The diagram above is correct.


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