Hi, this will be an extremely basic question, but I have a fast running VV 2-55 (too fast even on the slowest setting), and I would like to get a look at the motor and speed regulator arrangement. I just want to be absolutely sure that I am not starting off on the wrong foot here, so I will just ask about the procedure for getting the motorboard lifted off so I can turn it over. Is it as simple as the series of small screws around the edge of the case, or is there something else? What do I do with the tonearm while this happens? Does it need to be dismounted first? I will try to attach a picture just to be specific to my model. The turntable is off and the soundbox is going out for a bit of work.
Much appreciated,
johnk.
VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
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- Victor Jr
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VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
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- Brad
- Victor III
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
Welcome to the board John,
I am not directly familiar with your machine, however, looking at the picture, I would start with the screws around the edge. As for the tone arm. There is no reason you have to remove it in order to lift the top off, however, you may want to to avoid possible damage when you invert the top. The top appears to be stamped metal and as such, the tone arm assembly may be attached with screws and nuts. I would recommend NOT attempting to remove the tone are until you have the top separated from the base and you access the underside should you need to.
Don't hesitate to come back with more questions and to share your experiences.
I am not directly familiar with your machine, however, looking at the picture, I would start with the screws around the edge. As for the tone arm. There is no reason you have to remove it in order to lift the top off, however, you may want to to avoid possible damage when you invert the top. The top appears to be stamped metal and as such, the tone arm assembly may be attached with screws and nuts. I would recommend NOT attempting to remove the tone are until you have the top separated from the base and you access the underside should you need to.
Don't hesitate to come back with more questions and to share your experiences.
Why do we need signatures when we are on a first avatar basis?
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- Victor Jr
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
After reading up as much as possible on speed regulators, it would seem that the single leather or cloth pad(?) is either worn down, or shifted back in its holder so that it doesn't reach the disc in time to act as a proper regulator. Now, assuming I am correct so far, is there A)- an adjusting screw to move things along closer to the disc, or B)- can I simply shift the pad in its holder out so it extends more? Is it simply stuffed into the clip as it appears in picture three?
The motor seems to run fine otherwise, the visible grease doesn't seem very solidified or anything (picture number one). Once I get the speed fixed I will know better how it operates. I don't think I want to open the spring case myself.
Any advice appreciated! I have found actually listening to music from this machine many times more fun and interesting than I expected. This forum is a trove of good know-how I am just beginning to understand. My restoration time is limited in that it is a surprise for my wife, and how easy is it to keep one of THESE quiet? ha ha
Here are the pix.
Thanks again, johnk.
The motor seems to run fine otherwise, the visible grease doesn't seem very solidified or anything (picture number one). Once I get the speed fixed I will know better how it operates. I don't think I want to open the spring case myself.
Any advice appreciated! I have found actually listening to music from this machine many times more fun and interesting than I expected. This forum is a trove of good know-how I am just beginning to understand. My restoration time is limited in that it is a surprise for my wife, and how easy is it to keep one of THESE quiet? ha ha
Here are the pix.
Thanks again, johnk.
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- Victor Jr
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
As a followup, I timed the motor without a record (the head is out being serviced), and it runs 49 seconds at the middle setting and 56 seconds at the slowest setting for 78 revolutions. So that's an idea of the speed.
johnk.
johnk.
- Tinkerbell
- Victor III
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
Sometimes it may be the most obvious (and simplest) of solutions... and certainly worth trying first.
While I am not familiar with your specific machine, I would first try the coarse speed adjustment by readjusting the position of the leather friction pad in the arm or yoke that holds it towards the governor flange.
The photo gives the appearance that there is still adequate leather left; if it is still relatively soft and not hardened from time, it really is as simple as pushing the friction pad forward. BTW, if you ever need to replace a piece, the inexpensive leather sewing machine belts (which are still available at most sewing machine repair shops) work great. Just snip off the appropriate (eyeballed) length, insert and oil.
If this does not help, perhaps another forum member with some familiarity with your machine can speak up on adjusting the linkage that connects the speed control to the governor, as it will have some means of adjusting it.
Whatever you do, if you choose to tinker yourself, make certain your spring is completely wound down first! Some other forum members have mentioned being unpleasantly surprised by having governors literally explode on them.
One last thing, I highly recommend the book "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric L. Reiss. It contains a wealth of information regarding repair and restoration.
While I am not familiar with your specific machine, I would first try the coarse speed adjustment by readjusting the position of the leather friction pad in the arm or yoke that holds it towards the governor flange.
The photo gives the appearance that there is still adequate leather left; if it is still relatively soft and not hardened from time, it really is as simple as pushing the friction pad forward. BTW, if you ever need to replace a piece, the inexpensive leather sewing machine belts (which are still available at most sewing machine repair shops) work great. Just snip off the appropriate (eyeballed) length, insert and oil.
If this does not help, perhaps another forum member with some familiarity with your machine can speak up on adjusting the linkage that connects the speed control to the governor, as it will have some means of adjusting it.
Whatever you do, if you choose to tinker yourself, make certain your spring is completely wound down first! Some other forum members have mentioned being unpleasantly surprised by having governors literally explode on them.
One last thing, I highly recommend the book "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric L. Reiss. It contains a wealth of information regarding repair and restoration.
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- Victor Jr
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
Thank you so much! I figured this was a rather basic Victrola motor question and the answer(s) may be universal in nature as well.
One more image, it is hard to access, but this square-headed bolt (or screw) are threaded through the metal tab that seems to hold the clip for the leather pad. There is a tension spring attached to this, and the speed dial contacts it via long rod from the topside (it is the other end of the indicator dial) Perhaps adjusting this would move the whole clip towards the disc? It can't come out much farther, it would fall off so maybe it slipped over time.
Thanks for the tip re: Compleat Talking Machine Book. I am awaiting it through interlibrary loan.
Thanks again,
johnk.
One more image, it is hard to access, but this square-headed bolt (or screw) are threaded through the metal tab that seems to hold the clip for the leather pad. There is a tension spring attached to this, and the speed dial contacts it via long rod from the topside (it is the other end of the indicator dial) Perhaps adjusting this would move the whole clip towards the disc? It can't come out much farther, it would fall off so maybe it slipped over time.
Thanks for the tip re: Compleat Talking Machine Book. I am awaiting it through interlibrary loan.
Thanks again,
johnk.
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- Victor Jr
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:28 pm
Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
Well, I think I was able to move the felt pad far enough along towards the governor flange, so that it slows and speeds up now with the topside dial adjustment. I have it currently at + 0.2 seconds over a minute, with a record but not playing (the head is still out for rebuild) and I will leave it at that. Perhaps it will change when the reproducer is resting on it, but that is another story.
I could only try to nurse the pad through the clip, about ⅛ inch, so it projected out closer to the flange...it could never make contact before, it seemed. I also put a drop of sewing machine oil on the governor plate. The leather pad is pretty dry, should I oil that at all?
Finally, how can I calibrate the speed dial setting? It is currently pointing a bit towards the slower end while spinning at 78 RPM. Pictures are at the top of this thread.
Thanks for everyone's advice, I really appreciate it!
johnk.
I could only try to nurse the pad through the clip, about ⅛ inch, so it projected out closer to the flange...it could never make contact before, it seemed. I also put a drop of sewing machine oil on the governor plate. The leather pad is pretty dry, should I oil that at all?
Finally, how can I calibrate the speed dial setting? It is currently pointing a bit towards the slower end while spinning at 78 RPM. Pictures are at the top of this thread.
Thanks for everyone's advice, I really appreciate it!
johnk.
- Henry
- Victor V
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
Yes, you can go ahead and oil the leather brake pad. Two-three drops of a light machine oil (even the dreaded, much-maligned 3-in-1), or maybe better yet, sewing machine oil, should do the trick. I thus treated the pad on my XI, with good results. You probably won't have to re-oil it for years, if my experience is any guide.
- Tinkerbell
- Victor III
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
While I am not familiar with the specifics of your portable, here are the instructions for calibrating or setting the speed indicator needle taken from the 1924 Victrola Manual, (and which worked on my IX):johnk wrote: Finally, how can I calibrate the speed dial setting? It is currently pointing a bit towards the slower end while spinning at 78 RPM. Pictures are at the top of this thread.
johnk.
The speed of revolution may be checked by placing a piece of white paper under the edge of the record on the turntable, and while the sound box and needle are in playing position, note the number of revolutions per minute. The speed regulating screw/dial may be set to give the proper speed.
When this has been done on instruments having a speed indicator, if the indicator hand does not point to 78 on the dial, stop the motor, and remove the turntable. This will allow the motor to run; and while the motor is running slide the dust cap to one side to expose the hand, insert a small screwdriver in the slot in the end of the shaft to hold it in position, then carefully move the hand to the right or left until it points to 78 on the dial.
In short, you are just using a small precision screwdriver in the slot at the top of the shaft that connects the speed control needle and then manually (but gently) sliding the needle over until it points to the 78.
Hope that makes sense.
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- Victor Jr
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Re: VV 2-55 Disassembly (Newbie Question)
HI Tinkerbell,
Yes that makes good sense, but I think for a different machine
The end of the dial pointer has a slot that a blunt bar fits in; this bar goes down into the machine and connects to the flange SOMEHOW (my limited visibility into there keeps this conection a big ol' mystery still). The turning of the pointer shifts the bar in the curved slot, as you can see in the picture at the beginning of this thread.
There IS this very mysterious square headed screw I will I showed a few posts back-I will show it again here. It seems to screw into a metal tab that connects via a spring to the other end of the bar (that stuck up into the pointer's curved slot). This tab is what ultimately moves back and forth, and moves the leather pad/clip. Anyway, I am thinking that adjusting this screw sets the "start" position for the pad's clip, and thus, allows me to adjust until I can put the needle at middle position at my proper speed. Confusing? It is to ME ha ha
johnk..
here's the pic:
Yes that makes good sense, but I think for a different machine
The end of the dial pointer has a slot that a blunt bar fits in; this bar goes down into the machine and connects to the flange SOMEHOW (my limited visibility into there keeps this conection a big ol' mystery still). The turning of the pointer shifts the bar in the curved slot, as you can see in the picture at the beginning of this thread.
There IS this very mysterious square headed screw I will I showed a few posts back-I will show it again here. It seems to screw into a metal tab that connects via a spring to the other end of the bar (that stuck up into the pointer's curved slot). This tab is what ultimately moves back and forth, and moves the leather pad/clip. Anyway, I am thinking that adjusting this screw sets the "start" position for the pad's clip, and thus, allows me to adjust until I can put the needle at middle position at my proper speed. Confusing? It is to ME ha ha
johnk..
here's the pic: