Question about cabinet refinishing

[bofusmosby]

Greetings all! I have an Edison DD console model, and the cabonet is of Mahogany, and unfortunately, is in real bad condidtion finish-wise. I know that it is always better to keep the original finish, but since this is a low-end unit from the mid to late 20's, and is such an eyesore, I will have to refinish this cabinet so the wife will let me keep it in the house. LOL

First of all, did they use some type of paste-filler on the wood before the finish was applied? If so, do you have any recomendations? Also, what was the finish originally? Was it a lacquer finish, or was it shellac? Or was it something else?

Any input you can offer will be greatly appreciated, and thank you!

Jim

[gramophoneshane]

I'm sure any professional cabinet factory worth it's salt, would have used a grain filler, particularly on mahogany & walnut which was normally given a smooth even finish. Oak was sometimes left with the grain open to give it a more textured look.
Plaster of Paris was the most commonly used grain filler in those days.
The actual finished used does vary depending on when it was made & the model, but most Edison machines from the mid-late 20s were done with varnish. Over the years, old fashioned oil & turps based varnish seems to have developed into the modern polyurethane finishes that collectors love to hate, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to locate proper varnish these days. Varnish is also used as a generic term by many people too, so asking for it at a hardware store can result in being handed anything from shellac to a water based poly type product.
If you have trouble getting varnish, I would avoid using a poly finish, as it can be very difficult to remove in the future, and it doesn't allow timber to breath so it can cause veneers to lift and sold timbers to warp over time.
A nitrocellulose lacquer or even shellac would be a closer representation of varnish, and more authentic to the time period these were made.
It might be helpful to post which model console you have, as many lower end Edison machines were offered with a choice of finishes & colours, such as varnished or waxed, although I'm certain the wax finish would have had a couple of coats of varnish to seal the timber before the wax was applied.

The link below shows the process of using plaster as a grain filler when using a shellac or french polish.
Varnish & lacquer are not generally available here in Australia, so I really have no idea if this exact process would be compatible with these finishes, as the linseed oil might cause a problem?

http://pianomaker.co.uk/technical/filling/

[Brad]

You can perform a basic test to see if you can determine what the original finish was. Since you are going to refinish, try putting a couple of drops of denatured alcohol directly on the finished and waiting 5-10 seconds the check to see if it has dissolved the finish. If so, it is shellac and the entire cabinet can be stripped with alcohol, steel wool, and copious quantities of paper towels.

If not, then try lacquer thinner same way. If the finish dissolves, it is lacquer. You can remove as above.

If not, it is likely some sort of varnish.

[bofusmosby]

Thanks guys for the response. I can't believe that I left the model number out! It is the model "BC-34". I would think that using plaser-of-paris would leave a "whitish look to the finish. Of course, I guess that the stain would take care of that. I read that on the later units, that lacquer would have been used, but with the info that you gave me, I see that I should be able to tell by the methods that you described for sure what was originally used. The grille on mine is basically gone, and I have found someone with an original grille for my model. I will waite until that arrives before I do any refinishing. That way, I'll do it all at the same time, so hopefully, everything will match.

One other question.....The needle on mine is word down to a "nubb", with no tip remaining. Can the needle be purchased by itself, or will I have to replace (or have rebuilt) the complete reproducer? I own a 1912 Victrola, but these Edison phonos are totally new to me. If the needles are avaliable, then where can I find one, and what kind of a price am I looking at?

Jim

[martinola]

Hey Jim.

I tend to go for the shellac finishes. They're historically appropriate and relatively easy to re-do if necessary. It was often used as a base for lacquer and varnish finishes. (But never for Polyurethane.) I've found that Mohawk makes an excellent line of products. Here is the link for their grain filler page:

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=105

Good luck with your project. Just take your time and don't worry if you have to re-do stuff. If you stick with it, it will come out nice.

Best Regards,
Martin

[gramophoneshane]

I would think that using plaser-of-paris would leave a "whitish look to the finish.

As the link information shows, pigment was added to the plaster to colour it. That said, I do have examples of furniture with original finish, that you can see white grain filler in, but whether the pigment has faded over the last 100+ years, or it was never used, I cant say.

The Baby Console is listed in Frows Diamond disc book as originally being offered in "waxed brown mahogany", and after Nov 1923 also in "varnished Edison Brown". The waxed finish was discontinued in Aug 1925.

As for the stylus, I very much doubt they are available without the needle bar. I believe the diamond undergoes a special plating process that allows it to be soldered to the needle bar, and I'd imagine you would need specialist precision equiptment to set the diamond in the bar properly so as not to cause damage to records.

[gramophoneshane]

If not, then try lacquer thinner same way. If the finish dissolves, it is lacquer. You can remove as above.

If not, it is likely some sort of varnish.

Actually Brad, I believe lacquer thinner can also dissolve many types of varnish too, and is sometimes used to strip yellowed varnish from the surface of old oil paintings.

[Retrograde]

Plaster of Paris was the most commonly used grain filler in those days.

Victor used seaweed, so I've heard.

[gramophoneshane]

Plaster of Paris was the most commonly used grain filler in those days.

Victor used seaweed, so I've heard.

Possibly. It is called "tow", and Philco used it on their radio cabinets, although not until 1951.
To be honest, I'm not sure when tow was first made, or if it was available in the 1920s for Victor to use???

[Guest]

Thank you for all the input. About the needle, I guess I was confusing you with what I said. Yes, I need to locate the needle, bar and all. I just would rather not have to pay to have the complete reproducer rebuilt. Is there a source for these? What kind of a price am I looking at?

As far as the cabinet goes, I happen to be a perfectionist, and I hate being that way. I am restoring a 1937 Pontiac, and talk about a learning experience. I also have an old historical 2-story house I am in the process of restoring. Like I needed something else to occupy mine time. Geeez.... By being a perfectionist, this means to do something, re-do it, and then look at it closly, only to re-do it again! Its a real hazard. I doubt I will ever finish my house, let alone my car. Hopefully, the cabinet will be a different story. BTW, being a perfectionist does NOT mean that it will look perfect, by any means. I am afraid that I do not have that kind of talent.

After I answered before, I read the link that was posted, and I saw where they color the plaster-of-paris before they use it. That explains that.