The case and horn of my mahogany Opera appear to have been overcoated with what looks like a dark varnish in the past, making the original transfers (decals) indistinct. Not knowing what finish the previous "restorer" used, I am unsure whether to try to remove their work and get back to what lies beneath.
The alternative would be refinishing. What finish would have been used originally. Varnish? French Polish?
I have a reproduction "Edison" script transfer (decal) for the case, but does anyone reproduce the Music Master transfers for the horn?
Edison Opera help needed.
- epigramophone
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5432
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
-
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5776
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
- Location: Southeast MI
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
I believe the original finish would have been shellac. There may be a good chance that the over-finish is also shellac. It was not uncommon to "freshen up" old furniture with another coat or two of shellac every few years. If so, alcohol should remove it... and the original finish too, if you're not careful.
-
- Victor IV
- Posts: 1965
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
- Location: Luxembourg
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
This is what you are looking for, Roger: [ebay]https://www.ebay.fr/itm/274254727197?ha ... Sw9RZePd1y[/ebay] . It is a high quality decal. The seller also makes full horns, as nice as originals.epigramophone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:08 pm
I have a reproduction "Edison" script transfer (decal) for the case, but does anyone reproduce the Music Master transfers for the horn?
- epigramophone
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5432
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
Thank you Jerry and Carlos.
I will obtain some alcohol and try it on a small inconpicuous area to see what happens. I am sure my good friend Alastair (Old Country Chemist) will have some in his shed, and if it works I may be able to save the original finish.
If I go down the refinishing route I now know that replacement transfers are obtainable from Peru.
I will obtain some alcohol and try it on a small inconpicuous area to see what happens. I am sure my good friend Alastair (Old Country Chemist) will have some in his shed, and if it works I may be able to save the original finish.
If I go down the refinishing route I now know that replacement transfers are obtainable from Peru.
-
- Victor VI
- Posts: 3463
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
If it turns out that it's not shellac, I'd use a single edged razor blade in an inconspicuous spot and see if the top finish lifts away from the original finish.
A lacquer finish would bond with the original shellac, but finishes like polyurethane, varnish or other spirit or water based finishes won't.
Sometimes you can even scratch at it with your fingernail and the two finishes seperate.
Often when folks top coated a finish they didn't sand it properly or don't sand or dust it at all, so you can shave the new finish away from the original quite easily.
If it works, just proceed slowly once you find the best angle to hold the razor (usually around 30-45°) and normally you can remove large continuous strips of finish from each side of a cabinet.
I've actually used exactly the same technique to remove wall paint finishes a couple times.
You need to be careful not to let the razor to bite into the original shellac and timber, but it will usually leave faint scratches here and there on the finish.
If it appears too patchy looking with lots of fine scratches you should use a very fine steel wool lightly on the entire surface to even the whole finish out, but normally it really isn't necessary because
any light random scratches disappear once you apply a coat of wax or whatever your prefered furniture polish is.
The down side is that it can be time consuming, and it's quite messy because you end up with what appears to be strips and flakes of plastic all over the floor, and yourself , especially if the procedure creates static electricity in the waste.
I think it's well worth the effort because you can end up with an immaculate original finish.
A lacquer finish would bond with the original shellac, but finishes like polyurethane, varnish or other spirit or water based finishes won't.
Sometimes you can even scratch at it with your fingernail and the two finishes seperate.
Often when folks top coated a finish they didn't sand it properly or don't sand or dust it at all, so you can shave the new finish away from the original quite easily.
If it works, just proceed slowly once you find the best angle to hold the razor (usually around 30-45°) and normally you can remove large continuous strips of finish from each side of a cabinet.
I've actually used exactly the same technique to remove wall paint finishes a couple times.
You need to be careful not to let the razor to bite into the original shellac and timber, but it will usually leave faint scratches here and there on the finish.
If it appears too patchy looking with lots of fine scratches you should use a very fine steel wool lightly on the entire surface to even the whole finish out, but normally it really isn't necessary because
any light random scratches disappear once you apply a coat of wax or whatever your prefered furniture polish is.
The down side is that it can be time consuming, and it's quite messy because you end up with what appears to be strips and flakes of plastic all over the floor, and yourself , especially if the procedure creates static electricity in the waste.
I think it's well worth the effort because you can end up with an immaculate original finish.
- epigramophone
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5432
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
Thank you Shane. That makes sense. Many old paintings have had much of their detail obscured by varnish which has darkened, so the same problem will apply to phonographs and gramophones which have been overcoated in the past.
-
- Victor II
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:57 pm
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
Roger , Gregg Cline ( google : Phonodecal ) make a whole range of excellent quality decals for gramophones , phonographs and other items ,epigramophone wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:07 am Thank you Shane. That makes sense. Many old paintings have had much of their detail obscured by varnish which has darkened, so the same problem will apply to phonographs and gramophones which have been overcoated in the past.
including horn decals.
Absolutely best quality - I have bought form him a few times and have always been more than satisfied with what he sends. His prices are not over the top either , I can fully recommend him. Have a look at his website to see the extensive range he produces. Regards
- epigramophone
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 5432
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
- Personal Text: An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
- Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Re: Edison Opera help needed.
Thank you Paul.
I have not yet decided how to proceed, or whether to proceed at all, but it is good to know about the decals.
I have not yet decided how to proceed, or whether to proceed at all, but it is good to know about the decals.