Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

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funkyfoobar
Victor Jr
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Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by funkyfoobar »

Hi guys,

I'm new to the gramophone world and to this forum. I bought an old gramophone cabinet yesterday and I'd like to polish up some of the metal on it. I'm worried about this bit in the picture. Can I disassemble it and polish it or should I leave it on there? Also, can I remove the soundbox so I can do up the glass plate a little or might things break and be really hard to put back together? Or should I just be happy that it works and not touch it at all? :-)

Hope you experienced people can provide me with some advice. Here's the picture of the part I want to polish, the nickel/chrome arm basically:

Image

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Nat
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by Nat »

Don't polish! Let it look old - it is, and it deserves to look its years (and it actually looks very good!)

Simply clean it well. A too shiny finish would look out of place.

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Lucius1958
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by Lucius1958 »

The nickel plate looks fine as far as I can see.....

It would be a good idea, though, to go over the soundbox thoroughly, replace the gaskets if needed, and make sure it's adequately tuned....

As for the 'glass plate', I assume you mean the diaphragm, which is actually mica. Looks a bit discolored in spots; but if there aren't any splits in it, and it sounds good, you can leave it be......

Bill

syncopeter
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by syncopeter »

I agree, don't polish. Nickel is quite soft, compared to chrome, and quite easy to polish through. Just clean it with a little white spirit and then you can seal it with transparent lacquer if you want. It looks quite good as it is, so I would leave it that way. The 161 is a nice machine and deserves to be kept as original as possible. So if your soundbox doesn't rattle or sound harsh, I would leave it that way. If it does, have it rebuilt by a reputable dealer. It won't cost you the earth and he knows how to handle the fragile mica diaphragm. These machines are getting quite rare, far more so than the more common 163, its successor and are worth keeping.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by gramophoneshane »

Unlike the other guys, I always polish the nickel plating on all my HMV's (and pretty much every other machine I own). The only exceptions are those with gold plating, or special finishes like a lacquered or oxidised finish.
The base metal of the arm & soundbox are solid brass, and those dotty patches you see along the arm are verdigris seeping through the plating. If you leave it, it will only fester & permanently discolour the nickel over time (if it hasn't already), & eventually it will cause the plating to lift.
I normally remove the verdigris with brasso, then finish off with silvo. Silvo should be fine for the other parts, unless there's patches of rust (on the turntable rim, speed control etc), then you might have to try brasso, and possibly applied with fine steel wool if the rust is bad.
You wont be able to polish out any discolouration on the nickel, but it will make it less noticable.
Even using steel wool, I've never worn through the nickel plating unless it's a horn machine or lidless table model where the nickel has been constantly exposed to dust etc, and the nickel is badly corroded. On machines where the nickel has been protected, they will usually polish up like a mirror, but after a couple months it looses that "brand new" shine naturally due to the atmosphere tarnishing it. I actually repolish all the nickel again with silvo every 2 or 3 years because it starts looking grubby. The only way I've been able to remove nickel plating from an HMV of this era is to use wet & dry sandpaper. Cleaning & polishing the nickel with a quality metal polish that does not scratch the plating will in no way devalue the machine, but it'll look a whole lot nicer.
Personally, I would never lacquer nickel plating (because it was never there in the first place), but I have waxed nickel plating on external horn machines to give it some (invisible) protection from the atmosphere, and to make dusting easier.
I normally dismantle the whole tonearm, and clean & oil the threaded joint, and regrease the ball bearing in the base of the tonearm, BUT the ball bearings can be a real pain to get back into position.
Unless the arm is stiff or grinding as it swings, you're probable better off to just put a couple drops of oil down between the black painted base & the nickel arm.
If you do have to dismantle the arm, just be careful undoing the 2 screws that attach the T shaped bracket to the underside of the tonearm (the bit that supports the front section of the arm & soundbox & stops it falling down on the TT when not in use). You need to give the screws a good shot of WD40 because the screws are steel & they react with the brass arm, causing them to jam in pretty tight, and being such a fine screw, they can easily snap, leaving you to have to retap the hole.

The HMV/Victor No.4 soundbox isn't difficult to rebuild yourself IMO. New mica diaphragms & rubber gaskets are readily avaible from a number of dealers. Below is a link to the service data for the Victor No.4- which is exactly the same as the HMV No.4 except they are better quality metal.
It might be worth reading through, & if doesn't sound like something you can handle, then send it out to be done for you.

http://www.nipperhead.com/old/vic4sb.htm

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Henry
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by Henry »

See also nipperhead's instructions for rebuilding the Exhibition, at http://www.nipperhead.com/old/reproducers.htm, to see how nice the nickel looks on his job.

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Retrograde
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by Retrograde »

gramophoneshane wrote:Unlike the other guys, I always polish the nickel plating on all my HMV's (and pretty much every other machine I own). The only exceptions are those with gold plating, or special finishes like a lacquered or oxidised finish.
I agree with this approach. I've polished the bright parts of my machines with silver polish, or Brasso with good results. This is an area of the machine where polishing is generally acceptable.

syncopeter
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Re: Polishing the metal bits on an HMV 161, soundbox?

Post by syncopeter »

I actually like the slightly tarnished look. After all the machine is over 80 years old and should be allowed to show some wrinkles. So I normally just clean and degrease the metal parts and then put a bit of good quality car wax on. The wax protects the nickel from the acids in your hand

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