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 Post subject: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:55 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
Hi,

I am wondering why nobody here seems to be interested to get certitude if asbestos really is in Blue Amberol's plaster core or not. Given that there is asbestos in, any B.A. collector should know about this to be careful when reaming out the plaster core (I guess I don't need to explain again the risk to get cancer when inhaling the dust, right?). There was some discussion about this matter somewhere else in this forum with regard to how to ream Blue Amberols.

I checked the costs for testing any material sample in laboratory for asbestos. It is quite expensive, at least here in Germany, where one test of one cylinder costs at least $160. And to get a slightly reliable result, there should be several B.A. cylinders tested from more or less all 17 production years (1912-1929). So, if let's say a cylinder of every second year will be tested, it's 9 tests = $1440. Perhaps a laboratory gives discount on multiple tests, I don't know. But it will be a huge amount anyway.

So, my question is, does anyone know somebody or a company or whatever that is able to pay for this? Or does anyone know a laboratory where perhaps the boss is a talking machine collector, so he gives us special discount or does the tests for free? Any other idea about how this can be done? What i.e. if many collectors do his together and everyone pays a small amount of the bill? Just rough ideas - let me know what you think!

Cheers
Helmut


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:08 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:39 am
Posts: 63
Location: Germany
Hello Helmut !

For a simple test (to say if asbestos is involved) would cost about 50 Euros; if you need an extensive report (with percentage and kind asbestos) would cost about 100 Euros...
I think it will be about 5-10% chrysolite with gypsum (as Eternit: 5-10% chrysolite with cement).

I'm surprised that they worry about asbestos in Germany...; I regularly see people demolish asbestos without any protection (!)


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Victor III
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Drawing a blank...
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:59 am
Posts: 984
Location: Columbus, Ohio
I have two children under two years old so reading this thread has me a bit concerned. I have arranged to have the plaster from several BA's tested for asbestos. Before I do, is there a specific year or series I should have tested. I thought I would have one from the mid teens, one from the early twenties and one from the late twenties tested. Does that sound like a good idea, or should I test more than that?

Let me know any thoughts on this as I wasn't aware of this possible issue until reading this thread. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:12 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2507
I would probably just add a very early flat top BA to be tested too, in case asbestos was dropped from the mix in the first couple years to cut manufacturing costs.
It will be very interesting to see the results.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:09 am 
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Victor III
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Drawing a blank...
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:59 am
Posts: 984
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Good idea, Shane. I am thinking a flat top, mid to late teens, early 20's and late 20's cylinder. That should give a good range of years. I will try to get the cylinders to the person testing them by the end of the week. I did not ask how long it would take, but I don't see any reason why I shouldn't have results by next week at some point.

I agree that this will be interesting. I will be sure to post the results and any related information as soon as I receive it.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 183
Location: western Missouri
I will be amazed if there is ANY asbestos in that plaster-of-paris mix. Asbestos was used for pipe insulation and electrical work [in irons and such], and I can't imagine it will be found in those records.
My father was an electrician and later a drycleaner [working with a steam boiler] and used asbestos once in a while all his life. He died of colon cancer at the age of 84, after surviving breast cancer and five heart attacks.
The big danger with asbestos is working directly with it in a factory all your life. As far as reaming the records is concerned, I always go outside to do that so the dust goes where it doesn't have to be cleaned up. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Not going to worry about it. Even if there is no asbestos in cylinder plaster, who wants to breathe it anyway? Hey, maybe there's lead in it too. What about mercury? I just can't worry about bogey men hiding in my cylinder records.

I'd be more concerned about the aniline dyes that some of us use in refinishing. According to my doctor friend, that has been proven to cause bladder cancer.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:57 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:47 am
Posts: 2312
Location: Jerome, Arizona
I would say that the point here is not to worry or live in fear, but simply to know about the substances that we come in contact with so that we can take reasonable precautions in order to at least minimize our exposure to toxins. Knowledge is important.
"All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds." Richard Brautigan


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:32 pm 
Well the steam locomotive I played on when I was little, now has a Danger Asbestos warning on it now. Most brown wax cylinders contain lead in small amounts from the kettles, not the composition. Im shure some small stray particles of asbestos are in most old records, from the overhead pipes and boilers that were in most factories.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 8:20 pm
Posts: 985
How would it change your life if you knew for certain one way or the other? Is it really worth the cost involved to do the testing? When I ream records I do it outdoors, blow the dust out with compressed air then wipe the inside of the cylinder with a damp cloth. Seems to work for me; so far at least. When I lived in South Florida, I was much more concerned about driving 10 miles on I-95 than the potential hazards of reaming cylinders.

Jim


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