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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 1727
Location: UK
As others have pointed out, Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed and inhaled. The only time you are likely to disturb it in cylinders is if you ream them. Again like others, I do this outside.

When the brakes on my 1947 Morris squeaked, I used to remove the drums and blow out the dust. Then someone told me that the brake linings contained Blue Asbestos, so after that I just put up with the squeaks!

The car and I are the same age, and we are both still in running order.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
epigramophone wrote:
As others have pointed out, Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed and inhaled. The only time you are likely to disturb it in cylinders is if you ream them. Again like others, I do this outside.

When the brakes on my 1947 Morris squeaked, I used to remove the drums and blow out the dust. Then someone told me that the brake linings contained Blue Asbestos, so after that I just put up with the squeaks!

The car and I are the same age, and we are both still in running order.


It takes 25 to 40 years before you get lung cancer from inhaling asbestos. So, good luck!
.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
alang wrote:
Interestingly enough, the same issue has recently been discussed at the German forum as well. Our member Starkton inquired with experts at his museum and was told a simple method for determining if Asbestos is present. "separate the supect fibers and then apply heat until they glow. If they survive it's Asbestos, if they burn then not." I suppose one could grind some of the core of a blue amberol and sift it through a fine screen to separate the gipsum powder from fibers if present. Then use a blow torch on the fibers. Of course one should wear proper protective gear like face mask, gloves, etc. Should not be more dangerous than actually reaming a cylinder.
Andreas


I started the discussion on asbestos in BA's at the German board as well as here. And as I pointed out on the German board today this "easy test" doesn't make too much sense to me. I wouldn't rely on this compared to a proper laboratory test. So, let's check the costs for this and try getting reliable results.
.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:18 am 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 1727
Location: UK
max_phenol wrote:
epigramophone wrote:
As others have pointed out, Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed and inhaled. The only time you are likely to disturb it in cylinders is if you ream them. Again like others, I do this outside.

When the brakes on my 1947 Morris squeaked, I used to remove the drums and blow out the dust. Then someone told me that the brake linings contained Blue Asbestos, so after that I just put up with the squeaks!

The car and I are the same age, and we are both still in running order.


It takes 25 to 40 years before you get lung cancer from inhaling asbestos. So, good luck!
.


I have owned the Morris for 40 years, so fingers crossed......


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:11 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
epigramophone wrote:
max_phenol wrote:
epigramophone wrote:
As others have pointed out, Asbestos is only dangerous if disturbed and inhaled. The only time you are likely to disturb it in cylinders is if you ream them. Again like others, I do this outside.

When the brakes on my 1947 Morris squeaked, I used to remove the drums and blow out the dust. Then someone told me that the brake linings contained Blue Asbestos, so after that I just put up with the squeaks!

The car and I are the same age, and we are both still in running order.


It takes 25 to 40 years before you get lung cancer from inhaling asbestos. So, good luck!
.


I have owned the Morris for 40 years, so fingers crossed......


Not to be misunderstood - I'm not saying that everybody who has inhalated brake dust will die from asbestos caused lung cancer. Nor do I say that all Blue Amberols have asbestos in their plaster core. But everybody who has to do with either car brakes or Blue Amberols should know what risk it is or not to inhalate the dust. We all know that car brakes had asbestos (not sure if they still have - probably not) but we don't know for sure if BA's are abestos free or not. We should better find out soon.
.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:10 am 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3418
Location: Western Canada
Max_Phenol, if your so concerned by this.....why not have the compound tested. There are plenty of labs that can do this for you regardless where you live. Then you can let us know the result once and for all. Sounds to me like the best way to solve this issue. Best of luck with your findings... :).


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:24 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
gramophone78 wrote:
Max_Phenol, if your so concerned by this.....why not have the compound tested. There are plenty of labs that can do this for you regardless where you live. Then you can let us know the result once and for all. Sounds to me like the best way to solve this issue. Best of luck with your findings... :).


Good joke! Those test are quite expensive and I can't come up for this on my own. If abody who is concerned about asbestos in BAs would pay a little amount it might be possible to pay for this. And to answer your next question: No, I don't want to make money out of this to pay my collection. I just want some safelty for me and other collectors.

But picking up your idea: I should rather do these tests payed by my own, and if there is a lot of asbestos in BA's I should keep the results secret, so collectors who don't care about this wil die from lung cancer in a few years and I can buy their collections for cheap. Is that close to what you suggested to me? ;)
.


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:48 am 
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Victor VI
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:42 am
Posts: 3418
Location: Western Canada
max_phenol wrote:
gramophone78 wrote:
Max_Phenol, if your so concerned by this.....why not have the compound tested. There are plenty of labs that can do this for you regardless where you live. Then you can let us know the result once and for all. Sounds to me like the best way to solve this issue. Best of luck with your findings... :).


Good joke! Those test are quite expensive and I can't come up for this on my own. If abody who is concerned about asbestos in BAs would pay a little amount it might be possible to pay for this. And to answer your next question: No, I don't want to make money out of this to pay my collection. I just want some safelty for me and other collectors.

But picking up your idea: I should rather do these tests payed by my own, and if there is a lot of asbestos in BA's I should keep the results secret, so collectors who don't care about this wil die from lung cancer in a few years and I can buy their collections for cheap. Is that close to what you suggested to me? ;)
.


Sorry, I don't see where I wrote you would make money from others in my post..??. What I did read at the start of this thread was it would cost about $50 Euro to test a record. So, if you are very concerned about this......I know that I would (for that price) do a test just to see if asbestos is found. Then "if" found, consider investigating this further and see if any other collectors want to chip in on this. Someone needs to make the first move and you seem to be that person. That's the way I see it.
Maybe this is why I only collect Berliner records.....I don't want to die from asbestos. Wait!!.....is there is asbestos in Berliner records???...... :twisted:.
I just want to add....you have discussed this on the German forum and I assume you to are from Germany/Europe also. Therefore,you may find it easier to gather a German/European group of collectors that share the same level of concern and take this to the next step??. Just a thought... ;) :).


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 am
Posts: 55
Yes, sorry, you didn't mention money, but before someone else shouts "This guy just wants to make money", I thought I'd better put this right. ;)

If I'd find a lab that does a professional asbestos test for $50 I would surely consider paying this myself. But at least in Germany it is much more expensive - at least 100 Euro per test, which is approx. $130. In addition it doesn't make sense to test only one cylinder. We would have to test a certain number because of the long time it was produced (17 years). Perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to test cylinders from all 17 years, but maybe 8 to 10 different years from 1912 to 1929. If none of them would contain any asbestos it would be relatively sure that BA's from those years not tested are free of it as well. So, it's not a matter of $50 it is a matter of $1000 to $1300. That makes a difference (to me).

To get only one BA tested doesn't make much sense. If it is free of asbestos it doesn't say anything about those from the other 16 years of production. If it contains asbestos it only proofs that in this certain year it was used as a filler material - but we need to know what's the deal with all of them.

As it is not just a problem for European collectors, I think it makes sense to share any costs between as many of us as possible. If i.e. 50 collectors are willing to contribute to this, the amount for each one would be just $20 to $26 - that is roughly the equivalent for one BA cylinder. So, not a lot for such an important information. I still hope there'll be some interest by collectors sooner or later ...

Thanks, Helmut


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 Post subject: Re: ASBESTOS in Edison Blue Amberol's plaster core ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:53 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1377
Location: Grosse Pointe, MI
Why couldn't you just ream several cylinders that span the 16 years of production that you're concerned with, collect up the dust from all 16 and mix them together, then just have one test done?

1. You won't destroy any cylinders.
2. If you get a negative test, then good enough. If you get a positive, who cares if it came from one, three or all of the cylinders? Since most of us are not real savvy on what cylinder was made in what year anyway, it would simply be best to know to use caution reaming all BA's.


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