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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:01 pm 
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VintageTechnologies wrote:
Here is a simple diagram to wire the stereo cartridge properly for vertical recordings. The output is mono of course. You could use a "Y" adapter to feed a mono signal to both channels of your pre-amplifier.


Sorry to bring up this ancient thread again. I just got myself an audio-technica AT-LP-120 for Christmas and want to set it up for recording both 78s and vertical records. In addition to the standard LP cartridge I bought two Stanton 500 systems with separate headshells and now need to wire the cartridges properly for lateral and vertical mono. I got one system working by parallel connecting the L and R, as well as LG and RG connectors at the cartridge. Then I connected all four wires again, which resulted in two identical mono channels (I think). It seems to be working and now I want to configure the second cartridge for vertical.

I read all the threads on this forum and plenty from other sites, but I am still a bit confused about the described serial connection. I understand that I need to short the L and R connector at the cartridge, but I am fuzzy on how to connect the wires. What does L/R OUT and L/R GROUND mean? I cannot connect two wires to one connector. Should I remove two wires completely and only wire one channel? To confuse me even more I now found a site that suggests to also serial wire for lateral mono (instead of parallel) by connecting the GROUND of one channel with the OUT of the other channel http://www.tsf36.fr/erepro2.htm. Any opinions about that?

What I want to accomplish is to be able to play LPs, 45s. 78s, DDs, and Pathé disks simply by changing the headshell. I don't want to touch the RCA cables that go to my computer. How should I wire each headshell, with two or with four wires? Does it matter which channel? Sorry if these are stupid questions.

I appreciate any insight and explanations.
Thanks
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:03 am 
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Victor III
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Andreas, the series connection is useless in consideration of what you want to do (switch from lateral mono to vertical mono by interchanging two headshells wired in a different way). The utility of the series connection consists in that the voltage output will be doubled, which may be useful in some cases but also detrimental in others. However, if you use a series connection, you would have to rewire the RCA plugs at the amplifier each time, which is not what you want to do (if I got your post well).

I suggest to progress by steps and do some experiments by keeping the cartridges STEREO at first. Wire one cartridge normally, and wire the other by flipping the connectors of one channel only (for example: flip the white with the blue). Listen to a vertical-cut record and see if you hear it as expected.

As said in previous posts, depending on how the grounds are wired in your cartridge, in your turntable, and in your amplifier, what you are trying to do may be feasible or not at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Victor IV
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Andreas, the series connection is useless in consideration of what you want to do (switch from lateral mono to vertical mono by interchanging two headshells wired in a different way). The utility of the series connection consists in that the voltage output will be doubled, which may be useful in some cases but also detrimental in others. However, if you use a series connection, you would have to rewire the RCA plugs at the amplifier each time, which is not what you want to do (if I got your post well).

I suggest to progress by steps and do some experiments by keeping the cartridges STEREO at first. Wire one cartridge normally, and wire the other by flipping the connectors of one channel only (for example: flip the white with the blue). Listen to a vertical-cut record and see if you hear it as expected.

As said in previous posts, depending on how the grounds are wired in your cartridge, in your turntable, and in your amplifier, what you are trying to do may be feasible or not at all.


Here's what works for me:

Stereo cartridge with one side wiring reversed
Stereo amp/ receiver with a mono switch, switched to mono.

Sound quality on vertical records is equal to "regular" 78s this way.

It's easy for me as I have a Dual 1009 with interchangeable pre wired cartridge "sleds" so I can just easily change the sled.

Some EQ is required with Edisons as there tends to be more low end rumble on these.

You can listen to vertical records on a regular stereo in stereo mode but you get two channels of surface noise to one of sound. Cross wiring one side of the cartridge and switching to mono eliminates that.

Andreas, your L/R out is your + side of the cartridge, left and right, and your L/R Ground is left and right -. Switch the wires on EITHER the L or R side to phase "backwards" for vertical disc listening but you MUST have a mono switch on your amp.

Hope this helps clarify things.


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Thank you Marco and Georg for your replies. With the L/R I was referring to this picture that was posted by VintageTechnologies earlier in this thread.

Attachment:
stereo_cartridge_edison.gif
stereo_cartridge_edison.gif [ 2.82 KiB | Viewed 376 times ]


The same picture has been posted and referred to in other threads as well. As I understand it this represents the rear side of the cartridge. So would I connect the two output pins, and then connect the GROUND wire of channel A to the GROUND A pin and the OUT wire for channel A to the GROUND B pin? What would I do with the wires for GROUND B and OUT B? Or would I not even connect the second pair of wires?

Hope that explains my dilemma. My player is not connected to an amp, but directly to the sound card on my computer. My Mono switch would be in my Audacity software.

Thanks
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Victor IV
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alang wrote:
Thank you Marco and Georg for your replies. With the L/R I was referring to this picture that was posted by VintageTechnologies earlier in this thread.

Attachment:
stereo_cartridge_edison.gif


The same picture has been posted and referred to in other threads as well. As I understand it this represents the rear side of the cartridge. So would I connect the two output pins, and then connect the GROUND wire of channel A to the GROUND A pin and the OUT wire for channel A to the GROUND B pin? What would I do with the wires for GROUND B and OUT B? Or would I not even connect the second pair of wires?

Hope that explains my dilemma. My player is not connected to an amp, but directly to the sound card on my computer. My Mono switch would be in my Audacity software.

Thanks
Andreas


Well... that's certainly not how I've always done it. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:22 pm 
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OK, all your input gave me the confidence that I could experiment a bit without damaging things...

First I tried to simply use a standard stereo cartridge. I could listen to/record a Diamond Disc, but with lots of surface noise.
Then I tried to simply reverse one channel as suggested, which did not give much better results, regardless if I turned Audacity to Mono or Stereo. Still a lot of surface noise.
Then I wired the two OUT pins together and only connected the wires for one side to the two GROUND pins like in the picture posted. When I set Audacity to Stereo I saw that one channel had music without surface noise and the other channel was silent. Since I did not like the wires for the other side just dangling around I connected them to the two OUT pins that were connected. The result was the same, one channel with music and the other silent (because shorted out I think). When I switched Audacity to Mono I got one channel with music and pretty much no surface noise.

I am still not sure if simply reversing one side did not work, because I don't have a physical Mono switch on my sound card? In any case, the current configuration seems to be working and I can play all kinds of records simply by changing to a different headshell. Just out of curiosity I will probably try the serial wiring for the regular 78 Mono cartridge as well. Maybe this will also reduce surface noise? I'm still interested in opinions regarding parallel or serial wiring for Mono.

Thank you very much again for your input and advice.
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:34 am 
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Victor III
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Andreas, since you are not connecting your pick-ups to a standard stereo ampliier (which was not clear at first), conversely to what I've said earlier the series connection will possibly satisfy your needs best, as it seems that your audio software can easily handle a signal input coming from only one of the two channels. The two prongs that have to be jumped together can be connected with a thin copper wire wounded up as a pair of coils. Unfortunately a pair of wires/clips will remain disconnected as you dislike so much.

Feel free to experiment: the voltages and currents delivered by a pick-up are so low that you can't do any damage even if you short-circuit the poles.


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
.....
Feel free to experiment: the voltages and currents delivered by a pick-up are so low that you can't do any damage even if you short-circuit the poles.


Thanks Marco. I only realized through this discussion that the current is created in the cartridge and does not come from the player. That gave me more peace of mind to try different configurations without fear of frying the cartridge.

Thanks again everyone for your help and insight.
Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:38 pm 
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To bring this topic to a close I wanted to report what I ended up doing. I tested serial wiring the two cartridges, one for lateral and one for vertical mono. It worked without excess noise or interference, but was very quiet when I only connected one channel. Since I did not want to mess with the RCA cables to the computer I decided to use heat shrink tubing to connect the left and right cables for both ground and output directly at the cartridge.This worked very well without adding much weight. Now I have two separate headshells for lateral mono and vertical mono and another headshell for stereo. The output volume of the rewired cartridges is similar to the standard stereo cartridge and there is not unwanted noise in any configuration. Please see pictures below for details. I understand that this is probably well known to many here, but I am really happy that I got this working.

Thank you all
Andreas

Attachment:
Mono Wiring for Stanton 500 Cartridge.png
Mono Wiring for Stanton 500 Cartridge.png [ 10.79 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Left is lateral, right is vertical
IMG_0899.JPG
IMG_0899.JPG [ 1.31 MiB | Viewed 311 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Left is lateral, right is vertical
IMG_0900.JPG
IMG_0900.JPG [ 1.37 MiB | Viewed 311 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Playing Edison Diamonds (or other vertical cut) with con
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:58 pm 
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What did you use to bridge the two terminals together in the pictures above? I am wanting to do a vertical cartridge, but I haven't had much luck getting wire to cooperate to connect terminals together.
-- Dan

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