The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Tue May 23, 2017 6:37 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:47 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 671
Sorry, I guess I was unclear, Doug.

There is no expectation for a non-collector to want to purchase one of these (or any other cylinder for that matter).

The idea is that when your 16 year old nephew comes over and is showing interest and he says "what about that machine with the weird longer mounting place for the record?" and all you have to show him is some horrid ballad, a banjo solo, Uncle Josh, a Sousa march, or just about anything else authentic to the period, he is bored, and disengages, and maybe we've lost a future collector.

As I said earlier, and you quoted in your reply, we probably all have plenty of period-authentic content if we want to subject ourselves to it. But that doesn't have to apply to this record, which is for fun and technical demonstration, and so does not need to be boring (yes, I know not everything from the era is boring!).

We can all see the appeal of matching up media to machine, only playing Victor scrolls on Orthophonic Victrolas, 5000 cylinders only on Amberolas 30s, 50s or 75s, Berliner discs only on one of our several Trademarks (don't we all have at least 3 or 4?), lightning-bolt Brunswicks only on Panatropes, 52000 diamond discs only on Edisonics, and so forth. It's the authentic experience, and generally the media and machine are designed to be compatible with each other and good performance results. Totally cool and it's lots of fun to do that if your collection has that breadth.

I have a few Berliners, and can play them on an early Victor R with a Concert reproducer. They sound terrible, but authentic, even though I'm probably damaging these now-valuable records with each additional play. They really aren't interesting to listen to, except as a novelty, and so I only play them as a demonstration when a visitor is here. I could play those discs on my Credenza too (or a modern turntable and amp), and although they would sound better, they still aren't very interesting to hear - so I don't.

And I wouldn't ever try playing my copy of Victor 25371 or another Victor scroll on the R either, because although I like the record it would sound horrible, which is no fun. I play it on my Credenza. And the difference is, that I like that record and listen to it often just for my personal enjoyment of the content as well as appreciation of the recording and playback system used, and that's fun.

That's the purpose of this demonstration record as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:08 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 417
Peter,
I agree with you 100 per cent which is why I would like to get a movement going to produce a cylinder that young people would like for a standard Edison such as At The Jazz Band Ball with everybody's favorite Bix Beiderbecke.


Last edited by billybob62 on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:46 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 4524
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
I'm not trying to influence anyone, but simply sharing my perspective. Vive la difference!

If I'm demonstrating for a 16 year old (or any non-collector for that matter), my belief is that "shorter is generally better." If we have all these 4" Edison Billy Murrays, Ada Jones, Collins & Harlan, and Blue Amberols of fun music - to say nothing of Victor scrolls - why would we necessarily choose a B-series Graphophone, and why use the 6" (longer) format on it?

If a non-collector asks about the longer mandrel, the explanation is easy: "This was an interesting dead-end. Columbia was the first to make a longer-playing cylinder record available to the general public. Their 6-sinch cylinders played 3 minutes compared to Edison's 2 minutes. But you had to buy a machine that could play them. 3 years after Columbia brought these out, Edison introduced a 4 minute cylinder and accessory kits so that any older Edison Phonograph could play them. That pretty much killed off the Columbia Twentieth Century cylinders and production stopped after only 4 years."

Is it necessary or wise to play a 3 minute cylinder for a non-collector? Again, my usual tactics are based on "Keep it short and varied." By following the logic of a demonstration record on an exotic format, it might make sense to record Livery Stable Blues on a Lioret cylinder. To my mind, such logic is on the way to Route 66 by Percy Faith on brown wax. Now, some might like that and I have no beef with them. It's a free country. But for those of us who are focused on the history of these machines and records, such ventures will probably not be satisfying.

I'm not so much a purist that I'd draw the line at a selection that was never offered on the 6" cylinder format. I think it would be great to have an entertaining selection (such as a rag or humorous song) transferred from a period disc to a 6" cylinder - as long as it was historically appropriate. I take pleasure in spotting anachronisms in movies based in particular historical eras. I consider them "mistakes." But I wouldn't want to see/hear such things in my collection.

Again, I want to be clear: this is just one collector's opinion. It's no more valid than another's, but it might help some to understand why the current plan discussed in this thread is not finding wider acceptance. I hope those who want Bix on a 6" cylinder can make it work out.

Best to all,
George P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:00 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 671
Nice response George, and I see your point on demos, and appreciate your examples as extremes. Seems to me I've seen Elvis Presley content dubbed onto cylinders offered on ebay, and stuff like that, and find it silly. Perhaps we can think of this one more along the lines of a 3-minute 5000 series blue amberol, but yeah, it's still incorrect.

Anyway, yes, we can each choose how we will proceed.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:12 pm 
Offline
Victor Monarch
User avatar
Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 4524
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
You bet, Peter. Good luck! :)

George P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:32 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:59 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Ontario Canada
If I had something to play a 6" cylinder, I'd definitely buy one.

Can you make them in a blue amberol format? ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:55 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 671
Well, that's the thing. You never know when you might find a machine that will.

And by then it will be a lot harder to find one of the ten demo cylinders that we make now...

I'm lucky enough to have two such machines, and did not really seek them as such; the automatic phono radar (magnet?) that seems to develop in our type took care of that. You may be surprised by how soon one could show up.

Just sayin'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:13 pm 
Online
Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:11 pm
Posts: 16
Getting just about any song released on an indestructible cylinder of this format would be great! I'd be glad to get a copy of Barnacle Bill should it ever get released, although I must admit that I'd much prefer to see some ragtime tune or other typical selection from the 1905-10 era released first... How about getting Norman's input on this matter? There are way more chances of getting something released on this format if he believes that the title selected will be selling more than 10 copies... and he's in a good position to know what might sell.

Wouldn't songs such as the following ones spark the interest of all generations? Hello Ma Baby... Who Threw the Overalls in Mrs. Murphy's Chowder... Everybody's Doin' It Now... Come Josephine in my Flying Machine... or some ragtime compositions such as Black and White Rag, The Entertainer or Maple Leaf Rag. The list could go on and on of course...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:10 am 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 3246
Location: Česká Republika
phonogfp wrote:
I'm not trying to influence anyone, but simply sharing my perspective. Vive la difference!

If I'm demonstrating for a 16 year old (or any non-collector for that matter), my belief is that "shorter is generally better." If we have all these 4" Edison Billy Murrays, Ada Jones, Collins & Harlan, and Blue Amberols of fun music - to say nothing of Victor scrolls - why would we necessarily choose a B-series Graphophone, and why use the 6" (longer) format on it?



i definitely agree that for most demonstrations to newbies a two minute record is great, about the max time you can hold their attention. I'll usually try a march because I just think everyone should like a good march. :D

Of course i know that's not true but they are also very well recorded.

With Norman involved in your project it will be done well and the result will be fantastic. I must have over a dozen of his recordings.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FOR SALE: New Columbia 20th Century (6" long) cylinder -
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:55 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 417
A 2 minute cylinder could be played on all machines but, alas, the "Hot" numbers, which would stoke the fires of a 16 year old, are mostly on 4 minute cylinders.
I would have no objection to having a less than 4 but more than 3 minute tune on a standard Edison Amberol type cylinder.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: phonospud and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.