edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

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kirtley2012
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by kirtley2012 »

Thanks!
im going to buy myself some of those!, thanks

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kirtley2012
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by kirtley2012 »

Have yours arrived yet?, i would like to know if they work!

McTodd
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by McTodd »

They've arrived! I don't know if I accidentally ordered the wrong size but all the rods in my order were the same thickness - fortunately 1mm, so at least it was the correct thickness! I have fitted a couple using in one case the thin aluminium of a lager can to make the mounting, in another case I used thin brass shim (used in sculpting and casting to make two-piece moulds from clay patterns) which is around 0.1mm thick. I've not yet had a go at recording as I need to get hold of blank cylinders. As I have a stock of pristine dictaphone blanks, I'm currently making a mould so I can melt them down and cast phonograph cylinder blanks. This should take a few days so I hope to have some kind of result by the end of the week. If that doesn't work, I'll order some blanks from Paul Morris. In the meantime, I'll try to take photos of the recording head(s) with my DIY cutting stylus/styli tomorrow.

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edisonphonoworks
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by edisonphonoworks »

You are much better off cutting the Dictaphone blanks down and shaving them off, Or using new Paul Morris, Borri or Chuck Richards blanks than trying to recast the wax. You can trim the Dictaphone blanks with a sewing needle, or I use a miter box saw to trim my own blanks down, When I make the blanks from raw materials They come out 6 ¼ long to make a 4 ½, or 4 ¼" blank. . Having made blanks from scratch the physics of what goes on with the the wax, and the temperatures involved, and changes that happen when molding the aluminum or lead base compound from which recording blanks are made is quite scary to the unaided. For instance you must mold the dictation wax, minimum 400 degrees F and 450 F is the absolute max, or you will burn the tempering agent in the wax, molding . any lower and you will have pinholes. Ediphone wax originally molded at about 330-360 F, but because the wax has aged the pour temperature has gone up.. Every time this compound is re heated it must have fresh animal based octadecanoic acid added, you can't add the palm kind to old wax or it will streak and star on you Animal double pressed does not mix with palm triple pressed. The wax shrinks considerably, lets say for instance you would use a normal phonograph mandrel size, the resulting blank would not even go on half way and length wise the mold has to be about as long as the dictation blank to make a standard size cylinder. I know nobody reads my posts anyway or cares what I have to say. Ediphone brand blanks are safe to melt as they are aluminum soap based, however Dictaphone, Nuphonic, Standard ect. contain lead, and melting this wax enough may be bad for your health. To prove that I do make blanks and have worked on them here is some photos of recent ones I have made.
Attachments
A whole box of blanks showing that even though they are all the exact same formulation, they come out different colors, the wax within .01 grams of tolerance.
A whole box of blanks showing that even though they are all the exact same formulation, they come out different colors, the wax within .01 grams of tolerance.
Another blank I made
Another blank I made
Nice cream colored spiral core blank made by the hand of Shawn Borri;
Nice cream colored spiral core blank made by the hand of Shawn Borri;
Another spiral blank made by Shawn Borri using the Aylsworth aluminum soap.
Another spiral blank made by Shawn Borri using the Aylsworth aluminum soap.
New Borri blank with spiral core based on Edison Aylsworth formula.
New Borri blank with spiral core based on Edison Aylsworth formula.
new spiral blank.jpg (40.53 KiB) Viewed 1129 times

McTodd
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by McTodd »

Cheers, thanks for the advice!

Why should I not be surprised that things always turn out to be more complicated than I assumed they'd be...?

Paul Morris it is then...

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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by McTodd »

kirtley2012 wrote:Have yours arrived yet?, i would like to know if they work!
I managed to shave down a pristine blank dictaphone cylinder using a home-made shaver I made over the last few days (take one Edison Standard Model B bedplate, rig up a high-torque DC electric motor, and make a cutter patterned after the Edison domestic shaver attachment using brass bar, various nuts & bolts, a spring, and the blade from a craft knife). It took ages to shave it down because the cylinder was so much thicker than a phonograph blank, but I was amazed at how smooth my DIY shaver made it, indistinguishable from the blank before I shaved it. Here's a tip: while the shaver is running, hold the nozzle of a vacuum cleaner close to the cutting head, it sucks all the swarf away as you go leaving no mess whatsoever.

After much fiddling about and re-building cutting stylus holders today (basically because it was very difficult to get the angle of attack right) I managed to make some test recordings using my home-made glass cutting styli.

Results were very quiet. The last recording I did I used a 500W halogen spotlight to soften the cylinder surface by placing it several inches away from the cylinder while it was turning on the recording machine (an Edison Home Model B); you must have the cylinder turn whilst heating it so as to warm the surface evenly and not create hotspots. That recording was definitely louder but also with more surface noise due, I suspect, to my not seating the recording head properly. I used two different recording heads but there wasn't much difference.

It must also be said that I do not possess a decent recording horn, I had to use a Fireside-style horn to record with. I plan to make a long (probably 3-feet) straight-sided narrow conical horn out of cardboard and papier-mache with the proportions of an original Edison recording horn pictured in The Compleat Phonograph.

I shall experiment more tomorrow and I'll try and take some photos and perhaps even video some time in the next couple of days.

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edisonphonoworks
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by edisonphonoworks »

For general recording of individual instruments and voice, a 27" long horn and 6" opening, in a tapered cone is the best. When it comes to recording a band, a 56" bass concert horn does a remarkable job. I have used cygnet horns too, and they actually do a decent job recording, in fact the last primer on recording from Edison uses a cygnet for most of the recording applications. most recording diaphragms are two one thousandths inches thick.

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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by Orchorsol »

Really appreciate all the info and experience you're sharing in this thread, Edisonphonoworks.

I hope to record onto cylinders one day. For now, all I have is a set of 3 Ediphone machines in good and complete condition (the motors and wiring just need looking at). Beginner's question - I know that the groove pitch is different, but can they be used to record and play back music, rigging horns onto them? Or would the results be poor?
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by gramophoneshane »

Back when they had a website, Expert Stylus in the UK had 2 minute recording styli available quite cheap, but you only got the stylus so had to make the mount yourself. If I remember correctly, they were a hollow tube like the originals, and not a solid tube like you get making your own. Apparently the hollow tube helps prevent the cutter from clogging with wax as much.

McTodd
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Re: edison 2 minute recorder stylus and holder

Post by McTodd »

It wasn't really a hollow tube, it was an indented or 'cupped' rod, that is to say it was solid apart from a concave (more or less hemispherical) indentation in the tip:

Image

According to Eric Reiss in The Compleat Phonograph this provided better frequency response in recordings. I have no idea why.

Incidentally, I spoke to someone at Expert Stylus recently and he said they no longer make cupped styli, only flat-faced angled styli. Cupping the sapphire rod involved so many extra production processes that it pushed the price beyond what most hobbyists were prepared to pay.

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