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 Post subject: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: UK
An experienced collector friend has been given this rough and incomplete disc Pathéphone, which he is attempting to restore. It is of all metal construction, so possibly it is either a military or a schools model.

The tonearm is mounted in front of the turntable and connects to a small horn which directs the sound rearwards into a reflector, but the horn can also be turned to face forwards. A variation on the "Nuit et Jour" arrangement perhaps?

My spares box provided a winding handle (happily the motor runs) and a suitable reproducer has been purchased, but some parts are still missing, notably the panel from the base.

Pictures of a complete machine, and identification of the model, would be very helpful. All we have found so far is a picture of a Pathé Conqueror, which has a similar horn design but a wooden case with a tambour shutter instead of a hinged lid.


Attachments:
gram 002.JPG
gram 002.JPG [ 4.18 MiB | Viewed 579 times ]
gram 004.JPG
gram 004.JPG [ 3.94 MiB | Viewed 579 times ]
pathe gram and gardeb 004.JPG
pathe gram and gardeb 004.JPG [ 4.05 MiB | Viewed 579 times ]
pathe gram and gardeb 002.JPG
pathe gram and gardeb 002.JPG [ 4.11 MiB | Viewed 579 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 870
I've only ever seen one of these before at the Ardingley Antiques fair in the 1980s it was as found as this but had been restored amazingly , the "paint" finish was a faux wood design which this probably was as well so a good clean prep paint light brown and use a grainer https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wood-Grain-Pat ... B00MSENTGI to get a great wood effect , Bottom hole . forget it it's not really a problem


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2702
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
I'm sure the missing plate is a metal disc, which could be easily made and very unlikely for an original to be found. I don't really think it is necessary, since they are often missing on small toy phonographs and the only purpose is to cover an access hole to the motor....
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 594
Epi, this is a reflex machine made in metal and painted to look like wood. It is shown in some French Pathé catalogues of the 1910s, it was sold to the general public. The horn of the picture points towards a rectangular bowl with smoothed corners. I have its cousin in wood, but with the same acoustic arrangement. See the photo below to get the idea of how it should look like (sorry for the sideway posting, I don't know how to realign it):


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Pathé reflex.JPG
Pathé reflex.JPG [ 104.96 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 594
The metal model is the nr 19, see the catalogue below on page 4. The one I have is nr 23 on page 6


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Pathe catalogue 1914.pdf [4.12 MiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 870
What a cracking catalogue !


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:31 am 
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Victor IV
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 1728
Location: UK
Thank you gentlemen one and all. We suspected from the fragments of remaining paint that this was a faux wood effect known in the UK as "scumbling". This will present no problem to my friend, who is an accomplished amateur artist and a member of this Forum who has currently lost his password. I really must help him to recover it, as I am sure that he would like to share the progress of the restoration.

Since the pictures were taken, the machine has visited the local car body shop for bead blasting and the application of a primer filler coat. The remaining blemishes should be camouflaged by the faux wood graining process, and a replica Pathé lid transfer will provide the finishing touch.

Roger.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:26 am 
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Victor O
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 68
Greetings to ALL of you on the forum. With the help of my old chum, Epigramophone, I have been able to return from the hole I was in, trying to find my old password, etc. etc.!!!
Also, I must wholeheartedly thank CARLOS, for all the information he has placed on the forum about these Pathé machines, and letting us find out that the one I have here is Model 19. completely made of metal. THANK YOU CARLOS! The 1914 catalogue does contain a bewildering array of interesting machines. I happened to come upon this rusty tin box when my dear friend Philip Knighton was quite ill. He said that if ever his health returned, this would be the first renovation project that he would tackle. But it was not to be, and Philip, "The Gramophone Man" from Wellington, in Somerset, died at the end of February 2016. Sadly missed by us all, and will always be remembered. What he did not know about vintage radio and gramophones and 78s discs, was not worth knowing. Whilst clearing his record collection, and various sundry parts later, I discovered the Pathé gramophone in one of his sheds. Philip's widow presented me with the machine, and would not take any payment for it. I said I would do my utmost to bring it back to some form of working condition, and with visual improvement. It must have lain in a cellar well before he owned it, and was completely covered in rust, both outside, (badly) and inside,(not so badly) The motor was missing parts, or had broken parts, and would not work. It now does. I obtained on e bay a suitable reproducer, perhaps not the correct one for the machine, but one suitable for hill and dale records. What I really, really would like to obtain now, is a tone arm in good condition. It is only just over 6 inches long, with the usual cut-away part in the top for the end of the soundbox's knurled screw to slide into, to hold it in place. HELP!! has anyone got, or knows where there is one? as I would be happy to pay a good price for one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2702
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Please post pics of your restoration progress... thanks.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Pathé restoration project. Can you help?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 594
old country chemist wrote:
Greetings to ALL of you on the forum. With the help of my old chum, Epigramophone, I have been able to return from the hole I was in, trying to find my old password, etc. etc.!!!
Also, I must wholeheartedly thank CARLOS, for all the information he has placed on the forum about these Pathé machines, and letting us find out that the one I have here is Model 19. completely made of metal. THANK YOU CARLOS! The 1914 catalogue does contain a bewildering array of interesting machines. I happened to come upon this rusty tin box when my dear friend Philip Knighton was quite ill. He said that if ever his health returned, this would be the first renovation project that he would tackle. But it was not to be, and Philip, "The Gramophone Man" from Wellington, in Somerset, died at the end of February 2016. Sadly missed by us all, and will always be remembered. What he did not know about vintage radio and gramophones and 78s discs, was not worth knowing. Whilst clearing his record collection, and various sundry parts later, I discovered the Pathé gramophone in one of his sheds. Philip's widow presented me with the machine, and would not take any payment for it. I said I would do my utmost to bring it back to some form of working condition, and with visual improvement. It must have lain in a cellar well before he owned it, and was completely covered in rust, both outside, (badly) and inside,(not so badly) The motor was missing parts, or had broken parts, and would not work. It now does. I obtained on e bay a suitable reproducer, perhaps not the correct one for the machine, but one suitable for hill and dale records. What I really, really would like to obtain now, is a tone arm in good condition. It is only just over 6 inches long, with the usual cut-away part in the top for the end of the soundbox's knurled screw to slide into, to hold it in place. HELP!! has anyone got, or knows where there is one? as I would be happy to pay a good price for one.


My pleasure to have been useful, and very nice to hear back from you! As to the tone arm, I have one from a bunch of Pathé parts I bought sometime ago, but I don't know if it is of the right length. I will locate it tomorrow and check against the machine I have that is similar to yours (but in wood). The sound box that came in mine is a Pathé Concert in aluminum (a relatively easy to find either in England or in France).


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