"Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

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Viva-voce
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Viva-voce »

drh wrote:
Viva-voce wrote:...There was an Lp released back in the 1950s/'60's with something like 20 different tenors singing this aria. Not only was Caruso's version sped up to play in C-major, but the first high "C" was edited and looped to make it appear he was holding the note for several seconds longer than originally recorded LMAO

Steven
Let me guess: Everest?
I don't recall the label or very much other detail. I remember seeing it and hearing the Caruso track. Perhaps someone has posted it on YouTube.

melvind
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by melvind »

Interestingly the Bolig discography does not include the speed for this particular record. I was surprised by it. But, one of the other records at this session is also at 78rpm. I found that 78rpm plays this record in the key of B. That is what I used when transferring the record.

Viva-voce
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Viva-voce »

melvind wrote:Interestingly the Bolig discography does not include the speed for this particular record. I was surprised by it. But, one of the other records at this session is also at 78rpm. I found that 78rpm plays this record in the key of B. That is what I used when transferring the record.
Actually, the lack of a speed given for this recording in Bolig is an accidental omission--the other four recordings from that session he gives as 76.60 rpm. Aida Favia-Artsay in her book gives the same speed for all 5 of these recordings as well. (Moran's discography in the Caruso Jr.-Farkas book lists these at 76rpm.)
I find that at 78rpm, it sounds just slightly sharp, as do the other four arias recorded at this session when played at 78.
Your record plays very clear and forward--thanks for another great post! It sure sounds like it's playing in B to me--are you sure you transferred it at 78? My apologies if I appear to be splitting sonic hairs LOL!
Maybe Favia-Artsay, Bolig, et al were using French pitch (A=435) when determining speed hahaha.

Steven

melvind
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by melvind »

Viva-voce wrote:Actually, the lack of a speed given for this recording in Bolig is an accidental omission--the other four recordings from that session he gives as 76.60 rpm. Aida Favia-Artsay in her book gives the same speed for all 5 of these recordings as well. (Moran's discography in the Caruso Jr.-Farkas book lists these at 76rpm.)
I find that at 78rpm, it sounds just slightly sharp, as do the other four arias recorded at this session when played at 78.
Your record plays very clear and forward--thanks for another great post! It sure sounds like it's playing in B to me--are you sure you transferred it at 78? My apologies if I appear to be splitting sonic hairs LOL

Steven
You are correct that the entire session is stated to be at 76.60 in the Bolig book except this one which isn't marked. I just checked my turntable settings which I have not used since I transferred the record. It was definitely done at 78 rpm and my piano tells me it is in the key of B.

Viva-voce
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Viva-voce »

Yup I just checked and sounds in sync with my piano as well.
Maybe our discographers were using French pitch (A=435) in determining speed hahaha.
Isn't this speed issue interesting--and fun!

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Henry
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Henry »

The dub of 87001, as posted by melvind, ends on C.

(BTW, the tuba player on 87001 is terrific!)

Menophanes
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Menophanes »

Viva-voce wrote:Maybe Favia-Artsay, Bolig, et al were using French pitch (A=435) when determining speed hahaha.

Steven
I was very interested in Steven's reference to pitch standards in the early days of recording. I know that from the 1850s until the end of the century (and beyond in some areas) British musicians largely followed what was called 'Philharmonic pitch' (A=452, more than a quarter-tone higher than French pitch), and I understand that this was sometimes adopted in the United States too. (There is a story that when the American composer Edward McDowell was engaged to give a piano recital at an international exhibition in Paris in the 1880s, he insisted on an American piano because the tuning of all the available French and German instruments sounded wrong to him.) Is it known, or is there any reason to believe, that the higher pitch was in use in the Victor studios in the 1900s?

Certainly there must still have been many pianos and other keyboard instruments in circulation which were calibrated to Philharmonic pitch; many surviving harmoniums still conform to it, and even today this can lead to severe embarrassments when an old harmonium has to be used in conjunction with other instruments (e.g. in performances of Rossini's Petite Messe Solennelle in the original scoring).

Oliver Mundy.

Viva-voce
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Viva-voce »

Hi Oliver,

The issue of rising standard pitch has been vexing opera singers for a century. There are several writings on this subject that can be found on the Internet.

In Drake's second biography of Rosa Ponselle, we read excerpts from letters she wrote to one Col. Blois of Covent Garden where Ponselle sang a few seasons beginning in 1929. She was so concerned about higher pitch standard in Britain that she asked him to get the orchestra to "tune their instruments down to A=435 and keep them down." Ponselle's increasing fear of high notes was a factor I'm sure, but she was far from the only singer concerned about the rising of pitch and the potential resultant strain on voices.

As to pitch standards in early recording studios, I don't know if it has been documented, but I'm inclined to believe that most of these early singers, all trained in the 19th and early 20th century when French pitch was still commonly used in many opera houses, would have recorded at A=435.

Steven

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drh
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by drh »

Viva-voce wrote:Hi Oliver,

The issue of rising standard pitch has been vexing opera singers for a century. There are several writings on this subject that can be found on the Internet.

In Drake's second biography of Rosa Ponselle, we read excerpts from letters she wrote to one Col. Blois of Covent Garden where Ponselle sang a few seasons beginning in 1929. She was so concerned about higher pitch standard in Britain that she asked him to get the orchestra to "tune their instruments down to A=435 and keep them down." Ponselle's increasing fear of high notes was a factor I'm sure, but she was far from the only singer concerned about the rising of pitch and the potential resultant strain on voices.

As to pitch standards in early recording studios, I don't know if it has been documented, but I'm inclined to believe that most of these early singers, all trained in the 19th and early 20th century when French pitch was still commonly used in many opera houses, would have recorded at A=435.

Steven
As a practical matter, if a record turning at, say, 76 or 78 RPM plays at A-440, how much adjustment is needed to bring it down to play at A-435?

Viva-voce
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Re: "Di Quella Pira" by Enrico Caruso 1906

Post by Viva-voce »

I'm not sure as I've never tried it, but I doubt it would be much more than a fraction of a hair and I probably wouldn't be able to hear the difference, but being a singer, I would probably be able to feel the difference :)

Steven

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