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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 635
Location: South Carolina
That was a score and a half! If the reproducer is serviced, the XIV sounds a little too modern for its age!


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
Boy, oh boy! I never expected this to be what it is, or to get the responses I have. Coming into this, I wasn't sure what I had, or what I was going to do with it - Sell it as-is, put it together and sell it, ot put it together and keep it. Now I know. Some things are moving out to make room (and funding) for my new "friend" :lol:!
Thank you all for your input, and a huge thanks to everyone that pm'ed me with parts!
Here's a sad thought I had - The dismemberment of this machine happened in that garage and the parts that came off of it are probably still buried in some drawer there. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:35 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
*Mod - Please move this if it's in the wrong forum. Thanks!*
I have been making slow but steady progress collecting the needed parts from kind TMF'ers, and I got adventurous and went through the motor. I broke everything down, including the springs (it went very well for my first time! :D ), and cleaned and relubricated everything. I'm having an issue though - The governor makes a hell of a racket that I don't recall it making before. I took it apart, cleaned & lubed everything including the slip shaft and bearings. The spring screws were a bit loose when I took it apart, and I snugged them up better when I reassembled it, I made sure the ball bearings were in the end bushings (there's no slop there), I moved the drive gear up and down the shaft to adjust where it meshes with the worm gear on the governor to the point it makes the least noise, I've shifted the governor back and forth adjusting for least noise, I oiled the leather speed adjust pad. I've tried everything on the gears from oil to STP to white lithium grease, to the heavy grease I used on the springs. Nothing works. it still rattles :? :x . I've pretty much exhausted every tip I found searching the TMF archives. Have I missed something? Is it possible the drive gear is shot? HELP!


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:25 am 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 635
Location: South Carolina
First off, good job with the preventive oiling. Now for the open-heart surgery.

Wind the motor all the way down, take out the governor, and disassemble it and make sure it's tight. You may need to put new governor springs on. The springs must ALL be new, and it's better to get perfect reproductions from Ron Sitko (give him a phone call, he doesn't use email.) The springs may be old and have a tendency to go weak so they will be fine at low speeds, but rattle when the machine picks up some velocity.

I also have an XIV but it is a later model than yours. Still makes a noise--every six months it sounds like it will shake itself to pieces. The machine I have is equipped with a mechanical speedometer connected to the governor friction disc. That begins vibrating--and when the indicator hand is bobbling all over the dial I know it is time to tighten up the bolts on the governor.

Once you dig deep it's a simple fix; Victrolas are probably the most user-serviceable record player ever made.


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 am 
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VTLA
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TMF Moderator
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2448
Location: Delaware
Before you replace the governor springs, make sure they are all installed in the same direction. They usually have a slightly elongated hole on one end. All those should be on the same end. Once everything is clean and lubricated and moving freely, just very slightly loosen the tiny screws in those elongated holes. The springs shouldn't be loose, just be able to move around in that hole with a little effort. Then run the motor for a couple minutes, so the springs will all align the same in those holes. Then without touching the governor springs again tighten these tiny screws. This should have all springs aligned the same way and make the governor run smoother.

Of course, if the springs and weights are damaged or different, by all means replace them all. But try that adjustment in any case, it may just make your machine run even better.

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:32 am 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 2597
Location: Near NY's Capital
I agree with Andreas, try balancing the springs first. I've owned and worked on hundreds of phonographs and honestly, I've only ever had TWO machines that needed the governor springs replaced.

This being an early XIV, the gears are double cut and the spindle gear is brass. These gears are notorious for wearing a bit, which will cause noise that you may not be able to eliminate completely. At one point, these gears were being remade. I bought a couple of them at one point for a couple of my noisier motors and they did the trick. So this could also be your problem and you may just have to live with it, I'm not aware of replacements being available any longer, but Ron Sitko may certainly carry them. I haven't had the need to replace any others, so I haven't had to look.

That variety of the XIV is a showpiece. I have the same version, also in Oak, that was found in an old house less than ½ a mile from where I live, who knew.

Anyway, enjoy and good luck!

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:14 pm
Posts: 36
Rare and gorgeous machine. Particularly nice figuring in the wood. Worth the money and effort to put it back in order...Congrats!


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:59 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
Thanks everybody!
I broke the governor down and checked everything over very carefully. The governor springs do not have slots - just holes. They attach at each end to a conical shaped portion of the shaft. The springs had taken on an outward bow, so I flipped them inside out and they flattened out against the weights when I reassembled everything. I removed the brass drive gear - Upon closer inspection, I think I have found the culprit. There are some not so healthy looking teeth, and a few were burred up with chewed up corners, like it had been only been riding the corners of the gear teeth. I used my little ignition files to clean up the teeth and remove the burrs as best I could, but it's still noisy - HOWEVER - I don't have the reproducer yet, but when I put a little drag on the turntable with my finger trying to replicate the drag of a record being played, it almost shuts up completely.
*BTW - what does "yielding turntable" mean ? What is it's purpose / function ?


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:30 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm
Posts: 623
Location: North Central Iowa
Your governor springs look fine, and the "bow" goes outward. If they flex too much when the motor is running they will crack or break. The "yielding" thing is how the turntable rests on that round disk. It was supposed to keep the turntable shaft from bending if you put too much pressure on the turntable. That was probably more of an issue with outside horn machines while you were winding them up.

I have a machine like yours, and they are really nice. And even though they were cheaper than the XVI at the time, the larger horn does help a lot with the sound! I might have a sliding shelf thing that will work on your machine, except it will be mahogany. An oak one might take a long time to turn up, and you could put some oak veneer across the front until the right one shows up. Those motors always make kind of a rattling sound when they are running for whatever reason. You won't notice it when you are playing records, and you are right about it settling down quite a bit when there is some 'drag' on the motor.


Well good with it. It's a nice looking machine. You can get a lot more records piled up in the bottom with that rack out of there. That might be why it got pulled out in the first place...... Earl.


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 Post subject: Re: Oak 1912 Victrola VV-XIV Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:09 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
Quote:
. You can get a lot more records piled up in the bottom with that rack out of there. That might be why it got pulled out in the first place

Hi Earl -
I'm almost positive that's why it was removed. I wasn't sure at first, but then I found they removed the upper support blocks on the sides, too. That tells me they wanted to be able to slide albums in. Let me know if you DO have a rack, and how much you'd want for it. I haven't actually put out the feelers and started searching for one yet, as I want to get it mechanically up and going first, my budget dictates I do things one step at a time...The machine being what it is, I'd like to try to get the correct parts first (within a reasonable amount of time), before modifying others or making my own - however it will be a nice option to have in my back pocket...That's the last part I need.


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