The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Victor O
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Location: Newport Beach
hello folks,

enjoy some fresh material - did these this morning with a few new friends :-)


https://youtu.be/rJ_1lv5CZpQ

https://youtu.be/RUtOy8osaqw


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:56 pm
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Your recording is very very faint.


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Victor IV
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You’d benefit from a larger recording horn, the horn you used for playback works well for group recording, your recording horn would better more suited to solo vocal speaking or singing right into the mouth of the horn


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:16 pm 
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Victor IV
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Location: Michiana
The artists whose performance you committed to wax appear to be very skillful, but they use a stule of vocal projection which post dates the coming of the microphone, and hence one which dies not record well acoustically. Open throat, ringing head tones, lots of breath support... Those (and hitting consonants in an exaggerated fashion) are the necessities of good acoustic recording technique. A Banjo-guitar (which is fingered and played just like a common six stringer) would record much better, too.

I do not mean to be critical. I think that, perhaps, your extremely talented musician friends might enjoy experimenting with antique performance practices. It really is a great deal of fun. Once learned, these antique styles often lead an artist toward new mkdes of expression.


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:27 am 
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Victor O
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Uncle Vanya wrote:
The artists whose performance you committed to wax appear to be very skillful, but they use a stule of vocal projection which post dates the coming of the microphone, and hence one which dies not record well acoustically. Open throat, ringing head tones, lots of breath support... Those (and hitting consonants in an exaggerated fashion) are the necessities of good acoustic recording technique. A Banjo-guitar (which is fingered and played just like a common six stringer) would record much better, too.

I do not mean to be critical. I think that, perhaps, your extremely talented musician friends might enjoy experimenting with antique performance practices. It really is a great deal of fun. Once learned, these antique styles often lead an artist toward new mkdes of expression.


No offense taken... Here is a much better video reproduction. Ive spent a few hours getting to this level...

https://youtu.be/o-CltYzFWtQ


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:42 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
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Location: Michiana
An Edison home recorder in good repair should make records which are quite as clear and nearly as loud as the commercial product. You have an excellent recorder with a sharp stylus. You are using excellent blanks. Your recordings are exceptionally free from extraneous noise,band of course they do not "blast" at all. Remember, though, that the strongest, most realistic acoustic recordings are those which are just short of "blasting".

Remember, too, that in the acoustic era the success of a recording depended quite as much on the choice of instrumentation and upon the artist's "recording technique" as it did the recordist's skill and equipment. A performance given for the horn would not succeed on stage. The whole process involves artifice; careful choice of repertoire and instrumentation combined with highly artificial performance technique could, with luck, combine to produce a reasonable simulacrum of live performance.

Guitar did not record well, so a banjo or a banjo guitar were as a rule substituted. In the modern day I've noticed that the Dobro is an excellent substitute for the guitar. It records well and powerfully, and requires but little artistic compromise from a performer.

Note that the successful recording banjoists of the turn of the last century developed a special performance style which recorded well. Flashy, rhythmic, staccato and with little dynamic range. Steel stringed instruments with resonators and heavily tensioned heads were employed. Contrast the brilliance of this Ossman waxing if '98 with the rather subdued quality of Polk Miller's more (historically) authentic recording of 1909, noting that Miller's traditional banjo would have been nearly impossible to record successfully were it not for the great improvements in recording technology:

https://youtu.be/d0iJ84t7Fhg

https://youtu.be/h74UXqijkYY

The guitar was used for some accompaniments on these 1909 sessions, but it was far overshadowed by the powerful voices of the quartette:

https://youtu.be/KUNGQBHGZ5c

Note the clarity of the vocal production enabled by the performers use of traditional, pre-microphone support and projection.

The modern survial of pre-microphone vocal technique is most commonly found in the Opera House. Notice how well these singers, who use traditional voice placement, projection, and support, record. The soprano is more problematic than the tenor, but such was as true in 1902 as it is today:

https://youtu.be/1jeSpGfzlY8


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:50 pm 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
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Just want to weigh in on the choice of material - FOTD is a great tune. There needs to be more Dead on cylinder, although getting almost any of it down to even 4 minutes is of course a challenge.

Get 'em to do Crazy Fingers next time.


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:23 am 
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Victor O
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thanks for the long post Vanya! ;)

Peter! Agreed! This was fun to share with you guys. Not that many people appreciate what it takes to make a good recording.

Im interested that no one mentioned heating the wax, probably one of the most important parts, these were recorded at around 102-105 F.

this is one I am especially proud of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWyFDo6NEBU&t=33s

Jeani Foster from Wisconsin Philharmonic


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:25 am 
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Victor II
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PeterF wrote:
Just want to weigh in on the choice of material - FOTD is a great tune. There needs to be more Dead on cylinder, although getting almost any of it down to even 4 minutes is of course a challenge.

Get 'em to do Crazy Fingers next time.


How about some Terrapin! You can issue it on a series of 9 cylinders! Anyways, it would be interesting to put some of the Ron McKernan songs on there, like Big Boss Man or Mr. Charlie.
PHONOGRAPH, n. An irritating toy that restores life to dead noises. -Ambrose Bierce

-Roland


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 Post subject: Re: Burned a couple cylinders today - Friend of the Devil
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
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Just because it's fun, and kind of amazing, here is a picture I took of Phil Lesh night before last at his club (Terrapin Crossroads) in San Rafael CA.

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He played in the bar with pals, for free, the past three nights. He lives 10 minutes away so it's like his little clubhouse.

After seeing this photo, some friends said I should have grabbed his water cup so they could run his DNA. Others said I should have dosed his Pellegrino.

I did neither.


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