The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:29 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Michigan
We have a gramophone, an Atlas model 102 I believe, which I assume is one of many private labeled machines sold in their day. This one has a Garrard model 20 motor and an HMV No. 2 sound box. I have done a mild restoration on this machine and am very glad to have it performing perfectly. The only thing I am missing is the crank, and, so far anyway, it appears that they may not be readily available, so am leaning toward making one. Is there a source for cranks that I might have overlooked? In the event that I do have to make one, I understand that there are different lengths for various machine, but assume that the threads used on the Garrand 20 motor coupler are common, so can anyone confirm that this is an M8x1.25 thread? I have checked it as carefully as possible and believe this is correct, but, although the threads are definitely salvageable, they are a little rough, so would like to verify this before running a tap into it. And finally, again assuming I have to make one myself, I would like to verify the end of the crank that goes into the motor. If I recall correctly, the crank is not threaded all the way to the end, and that the end is turned down to fit inside the motor couple, so that when the crank is threaded in the end of the crank bottoms against the bottom of the bore. Is this correct. Thank you very much for any information that you can provide.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:20 pm 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2825
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Where are you located? Suitable winding handles are frequently listed on UK eBay.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:29 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Michigan
Thank you. I am in Michigan, and have seen a couple of possibilities here on ebay, but so far not enough detail to be sure without further correspondence, and I have never used ebay before so may need to learn a bit about that first. I have a metal lathe and a wood lathe so would not be much of a problem to recreate one if I had to, but thought I would spend at least some effort on something more "genuine".


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Victor VI
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3769
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
First, measure the distance from the winding shaft out through the crank hole in the cabinet. Then add approx. 3" to that and you have the length of a crank that would work. It will be a lot easier to find a generic crank and modify it to fit than making one from scratch. It won't look new and most people would never know the difference. I am assuming from your post that the winding shaft has a female coupling, so modifying a generic male crank won't be too much trouble - just shape the end and re-thread it to match the winding shaft or re-tap and re-thread both to make sure they match... There is no problem to change the thread pitch from metric to US... Also, once you determine the correct length post it on the Forum and I'm sure someone will be able to help.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Victor VI
User avatar
Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 3769
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Actually, the guy who could help you is in Michigan, but won't be back until April.
George Vollema
9496 N. Woodbridge Ave, Bitely MI 49309

PHONE: (231) 745-7175

EMAIL: victrola@triton.net
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:49 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1724
An original Garrard 20 motor handle thread is 5/16" BSF , a picture of your gramophone would be helpful


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:19 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:29 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Michigan
Thank you all the way around. I did contact George, and he replied, but, as mentioned, he won't be back until spring so we'll see where we are by that time. I had considered retapping it to something close, but wasn't my first choice just because that's not how I typically do things. Not saying there is anything wrong with it, but, along with our own "barn finds" I have quite a few friends and neighbors who call on me when something needs repairs so have ended up fixing a fair amount of previous "cobbling". I really appreciate the comment on the 5/16 BSF thread, particularly since I am almost certain now that's what it is. Sort of hard to read the thread gauges inside a smaller bore like that, but I ruled out a 5/16-24 USF, and sort of settled on it being 8Mx1.25 even though that didn't seem to be exact either. Dumb thing on my part was that I thought and even mentioned to the wife that I was missing something because I knew that there were unique British threads. So I think before I go any farther I will pick up a 5/16 BSF to verify so I at least know for sure what I am looking for. Thank you all again.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:35 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1724
A picture would still be nice 1


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:16 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:29 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Michigan
Yes, meant to add that although I'm not big on posting pictures online, don't ask why, just one of my quirks, but appreciate the tip on the thread size enough that I will make an exception in this case. But it will be a day or so as it's all apart right now. It's one of those projects where I didn't want to get too carried away until I knew what I had, so disassembled enough to clean and lubricate the motor and things like that, checked it out to make sure it worked, and now have it stripped back down to clean the inside of the cabinet thoroughly, straighten a couple of hings from where it must have gotten bumped into at some point, and a few things like that. Should get it back together though in the next few days.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank, to make or buy
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:05 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 1724
Darrell wrote:
Yes, meant to add that although I'm not big on posting pictures online, don't ask why, just one of my quirks, but appreciate the tip on the thread size enough that I will make an exception in this case. But it will be a day or so as it's all apart right now. It's one of those projects where I didn't want to get too carried away until I knew what I had, so disassembled enough to clean and lubricate the motor and things like that, checked it out to make sure it worked, and now have it stripped back down to clean the inside of the cabinet thoroughly, straighten a couple of hings from where it must have gotten bumped into at some point, and a few things like that. Should get it back together though in the next few days.



that would be great , nice to see an Atlas gramophone and good for archive future !


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