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 Post subject: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:00 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 1:06 pm
Posts: 19
As some of you already know, I am new here and new to antique phonographs. I also came to the understanding some folks here would like to see some photos of the Vic VI that I have been referencing, so I am happy to share!

This is a Vic VI that I came across. I discovered it in a structure on my friend's property.

I have been gathering resources and information related to the Victor VI - including the APS Price Guide (draft). However, I remain in need of assistance insofar as rating condition and valuation goes. My experience with other collectibles tells me this machine is in Fair to (maybe) Good condition as it sits.

What would you expect to pay for a machine in this condition? Lets assume at a minimum, the motor & reproducer will need to go out refurbishment and tuning?

My friend and I are trying to nail-down a fair price, so I am hoping someone can help guide me a bit :-)

Thank you!

Dino


Attachments:
File comment: Horn
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File comment: Closeup of pitting
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File comment: Closeup of worn gold
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victor-2.jpg [ 430.44 KiB | Viewed 779 times ]
File comment: The Vic VI as discovered
victor-1.jpg
victor-1.jpg [ 1.55 MiB | Viewed 779 times ]


Last edited by dbwest on Thu May 16, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:31 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6333
Location: Albany, Oregon
It's tough to go first but here goes... You have what appears to be an unmolested Victor VI that needs a good cleaning, the motor serviced, and the Exhibition reproducer rebuilt. I am assuming the condition of the balance of the machine is the same condition as shown in the photos. The cabinet looks like it would clean and be exceptional. The horn looks like it has a fair amount of crazing unless it's a poor photo. Be very cautious when you clean the gold parts. I'd suggest using ammonia after removing all gold parts from the cabinet. If I saw this machine in an antique shop I'm a buyer at $2500 and I'd think about it at $3000 and probably pass at $3500. I already have an exceptional Victor VI in my collection and would be buying for resale. I assume your friend would like to sell and you would like to keep it. Is that correct? You can expect to spend $200 to get it in shape or do the work yourself. You should both be happy in the $3000 price range.

Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 1:06 pm
Posts: 19
Hi Jerry,

Thank you for the detailed assessment - much appreciated.

Yes, you are correct, I would very much like to keep it and eventually listen to some old-time jazz on it ;-)

I noticed a bit of stain on the gold where the mahogany attaches to the horn collar/base. I am wondering if this is sign that the horn has been re-stained at some point?

So, refurbishing motor & reproducer will run around $200?


Last edited by dbwest on Thu May 16, 2019 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 2643
dbwest wrote:
Hi Jerry,

Yes, you are correct, I would very much like to keep it and eventually listen to some old-time jazz on it ;-)

Dino


Lovely machine, but by the time jazz records rolled around (1917), this machine would have been heading for obsolescence. Acoustic jazz (roughly/generally pre-1926) would be OK on this. Electrically recorded 20s and 30s jazz will sound significantly better on an Orthophonic machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:00 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 1:06 pm
Posts: 19
52089 wrote:
dbwest wrote:
Hi Jerry,

Yes, you are correct, I would very much like to keep it and eventually listen to some old-time jazz on it ;-)

Dino


Lovely machine, but by the time jazz records rolled around (1917), this machine would have been heading for obsolescence. Acoustic jazz (roughly/generally pre-1926) would be OK on this. Electrically recorded 20s and 30s jazz will sound significantly better on an Orthophonic machine.

Great point! Thank you very much for the suggestion.

Dino


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Victor VI
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I'm Feeling Cranky
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 3123
Location: Livonia, NY
Oh, but all the Fox-Trots you could play. ;)

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:04 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 1:06 pm
Posts: 19
fran604g wrote:
Oh, but all the Fox-Trots you could play. ;)

Best,
Fran

Yep! Like maybe... Fatty Martin's Orchestra - Jimtown Blues - 1925 :)


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6333
Location: Albany, Oregon
Of the six replies mine is the only one to venture an estimate on value. What do others think? :)

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:38 pm
Posts: 1305
Location: Plover, WI
I think Jerry is spot on for a current value if it doesn't need major repairs. It is hard to determine the fine details of the overall condition from the pictures. Will the plating clean up or not?, are the springs broken?, any cracks in the horn?, etc... Overall, it doesn't look that bad and I hope you get it.
Just don't be too aggressive with cleaning and buffing the gold plated parts. The plating is very thin.
Ken


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 Post subject: Re: Victor VI valuation
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:11 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Jerome, Arizona
dbwest wrote:
52089 wrote:
dbwest wrote:
Hi Jerry,

Yes, you are correct, I would very much like to keep it and eventually listen to some old-time jazz on it ;-)

Dino


Lovely machine, but by the time jazz records rolled around (1917), this machine would have been heading for obsolescence. Acoustic jazz (roughly/generally pre-1926) would be OK on this. Electrically recorded 20s and 30s jazz will sound significantly better on an Orthophonic machine.

Great point! Thank you very much for the suggestion.

Dino


This is an important point that non-collectors (and many collectors) don’t understand. Your Victor VI was designed to play recordings made during the acoustical era of sound recording. The recording process entailed singing or playing into a horn and the sound pressure vibrates a diaphragm that scribed the sound groove into the wax recording blank. In 1925, electrical recording was introduced, a system that used microphones to ‘hear’ the sound being recorded and electrically-amplified cutting heads to scribe the wax. If one were to compare the grooves of both systems, the electrical groove is more detailed and modulates more widely, resulting in greater realism and volume. Victor introduced a new line of Victrolas (the ‘Orthophonic’ series) that were specifically designed to play electrical recordings. The stamped-aluminum diaphragms are completely different in design and performance from the mica diaphragms of the acoustical era. If you play an electrical recording on an acoustical-era machine, sound will come out of the horn, but, the sound will be more strident and will lack the expanded tonal range that is the entire point of an electrical recording; the mica diaphragm may delaminate as it tries to keep up with the greater signal that is being sent to it from the groove; and the record will wear-out more quickly for the same reason as the groove fights the needle. If early Jazz is your taste, sell the Vic VI and buy a nice Victor Orthophonic ‘Credenza’ and have the reproducer rebuilt so that it performing optimally, roll-up the rugs, and enjoy!
"All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds." Richard Brautigan


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