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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Victor V
on instagram as "oncedeadsound"
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 2052
Location: just outside Philadelphia, PA
I think this is definitely a fake... the cabinet itself was previously discussed on another board, with same photo, and even the language sounds familiar... wasn't this listed on ebay? and it sold for a buy it now price around 2500 or so?

brian


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:57 pm
Posts: 268
Location: The Granite State
Interesting that "labors" is spelled in the U.S. style (11th line down) and not "labours" as I believe is proper in the U.K.

:clover:
Check with your dealer for the latest Edison Records!


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:34 am 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
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Location: Česká Republika
Steve wrote:
We've got a collector over here who lives in London (and who is a member of the UK forum) so he will probably investigate it but I do know it's been for sale for at least a year and probably nearer two now. That says a lot.

Personally, I wouldn't want it even if it was genuine because it's just a very big (wide) cabinet with the same machanism and acoustic properties of any of the early table grand HMV's. It is really a Table Grand wedged into a long sideboard style record cupboard. Not for me really at any price.

I want a bit more bang for my bucks or space!


Steve I'm with Richard on this one. It may be acoustically similar to a table grand HMV but I'm not sure it would have the same mechanism. As I recall mine had a beastly heavy motor with four large springs in two barrels on either side of the spindle shaft. It played a good half hour on a full winding. It seems like it would be way too big to fit into the HMV cabinet but I could be wrong.

Just out of curiosity I send the party an email asking for more pictures yesterday. So far no reply. I really can't imagine how someone could expect to put this up as a fake and pull it off though.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:39 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1544
Steve wrote:
It is really a Table Grand wedged into a long sideboard style record cupboard. Not for me really at any price.

I want a bit more bang for my bucks or space!


Because of the cabinet's width, it does look like the mechanism and horn of a table model. But in reality, what Victor did was to take the full-size cabinets used for the upright Period models--introduced in 1917--and modify them and add large record storage compartments on either side, starting in 1920.

(SEE: http://www.victor-victrola.com/Gothic.htm )

I noted on the gramophone board that it's roughly the size of three cabinet models standing side by side. Actually, more like 2 & ½ full-size Victrolas. Still, very large, nonetheless.

As Valecnik notes, it is also equipped with Victor's (finest) four spring motor, along with all of the other components used in the more expensive upright cabinet models such as the VV-XVI.

As for sound quality, while it would be on par with any of the full-size pre-1925 Victrolas/Gramophones, it would certainly be no match even for the smallest Orthophonic era cabinet models. (Since space is also an issue for me, I would be more inclined to opt for a Credenza, if I could afford one. But that would also be too large for my present apartment. :cry: )


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:52 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 430
Location: Netherlands
Ortho_Fan wrote:
Steve wrote:
It is really a Table Grand wedged into a long sideboard style record cupboard. Not for me really at any price.

I want a bit more bang for my bucks or space!


Because of the cabinet's width, it does look like the mechanism and horn of a table model. But in reality, what Victor did was to take the full-size cabinets used for the upright Period models--introduced in 1917--and modify them and add large record storage compartments on either side, starting in 1920.

(SEE: http://www.victor-victrola.com/Gothic.htm )

I noted on the gramophone board that it's roughly the size of three cabinet models standing side by side. Actually, more like 2 & ½ full-size Victrolas. Still, very large, nonetheless.

As Valecnik notes, it is also equipped with Victor's (finest) four spring motor, along with all of the other components used in the more expensive upright cabinet models such as the VV-XVI.

As for sound quality, while it would be on par with any of the full-size pre-1925 Victrolas/Gramophones, it would certainly be no match even for the smallest Orthophonic era cabinet models. (Since space is also an issue for me, I would be more inclined to opt for a Credenza, if I could afford one. But that would also be too large for my present apartment. :cry: )


I don't particularly like this style. It looks like something the Addams Family would own ; ).

I also have a really tiny apartment, but one day I would really like to have a Credenza, or a a similar European model, perhaps a Re-entrant such as the HMV 163. They are not cheap, but they do turn up occasionally in the Netherlands, I even found a couple yesterday, on http://www.marktplaats.nl, (marktplaats translates to "market place") for less than EUR 700.

If your problem is lack of space, just get rid of some of the furniture. Who needs a big sofa or a dining room table? I eat with my plate on my lap, or sitting behind my computer desk.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:39 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
Thanks for pointing out it has the 34 motor in it. I didn't know that. It is an attractive piece but I still would pass on it due to the size (we're old fashioned over here, sleep in beds, eat at dining tables etc ;) ) and lack of space.

It might represent some peak of design and the pinnacle of luxury but acoustically at least, you're still only getting a table grand in a sideboard. It appears the majority of British collectors favour cylinder machines and small "shelf" type items. On the continent they also favour smaller machines (apart from some of the very wealthy collectors with large marbled walled museums) in the main, so my worry would also be that if I needed to sell it in the future, I'd never be able to get rid of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1532
Personally I am no expert on these kind of machine. I do recall however many years go seeing some early supposed art cabinet victors and was struck by the tiny horn and mechanism that was embedded in a much larger fancy cabinet. Other than for the sake of owing it it wouldn't probably do much sound wise which is normally my goal.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:55 am
Posts: 176
This is definitely one you don't buy for sound quality but rather rarity. I think is is a handsome cabinet with hammered metal works. The NY machine was once on ebay and did not sell. I made an offer of $5K at the time and was turned down.

This is just a guess but I think it is listed as though it is in the UK so some American collector will freak out over the price and rush to "land" this one. I just remember the old photo having the same color walls in the background. But it could be for real - if a local collector offers to come by and check it out and the owner is not cooperative then it is a scam.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1544
bart1927 wrote:
If your problem is lack of space, just get rid of some of the furniture. Who needs a big sofa or a dining room table? I eat with my plate on my lap, or sitting behind my computer desk.

LOL. :lol: No room for a sofa either, or a dinning room table. I just have a couple of stick type chairs in the living room area plopped directly in front of my Victrola(s). (The rest of the living room space is devoted to a home-office, since I work from home.)

While San Francisco has not yet felt the full effect of the current depression, nonetheless the unemployment rate is on a steady rise in the city, itself. Unfortunately, landlords have not yet gotten the message, and rents are still predicated on the (booming) economy--as it was three or four years ago. (About 85 percent of the people in the city are renters.) Translation, a nice one or two bedroom apartment, that isn't located in a slum, will set you back about $2500-$3000/month.

Since the building I live in falls under rent control, I'm paying about half of what similar vacant units are now going for, so I'm kind of stuck where I am for the time being.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola Gothic model on Craigslist UK! :-)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 430
Location: Netherlands
Ortho_Fan wrote:
bart1927 wrote:
While San Francisco has not yet felt the full effect of the current depression, nonetheless the unemployment rate is on a steady rise in the city, itself. Unfortunately, landlords have not yet gotten the message, and rents are still predicated on the (booming) economy--as it was three or four years ago. (About 85 percent of the people in the city are renters.) Translation, a nice one or two bedroom apartment, that isn't located in a slum, will set you back about $2500-$3000/month.

Since the building I live in falls under rent control, I'm paying about half of what similar vacant units are now going for, so I'm kind of stuck where I am for the time being.


If you can spend that kind of money wouldn't it be cheaper to buy? For EUR 1000 a month you could get a big enough mortgage over here to buy a decent house.

Renting is a lot cheaper over here. Prices like 2 or 3000 euro's are only payed by rich expats who rent completely furnished villa's. For as little as EUR 300 (about $ 375) a month you can rent a nice little appartment. That's what I pay, and no, I'm not living in a ghetto ;). The only downside is that for that price you can't live in the "big city", only in one of the nearby smaller villages.

But let's get back O.T.


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