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 Post subject: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:58 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 am
Posts: 27
Anyone interested in an easy project of a very rare teak hmv gramophone
http://youtu.be/Ag25i5DJFis


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:47 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 427
Location: USA
Interesting and fun machine. I bought one a number of years ago.
Best regards ... AZ*


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:55 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1498
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
Did you ever finish restoring the 118 you bought, AZ? I would like to see it if you have!


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:08 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 427
Location: USA
Steve wrote:
Did you ever finish restoring the 118 you bought, AZ? I would like to see it if you have!

No, not finished yet. I was making good progress, but got interrupted by work and family matters, so I put it aside for a while. I hope to get back to it soon. If not, it will shortly be too hot to work on it in the garage, so I would have to wait until autumn and cooler temperatures.

The horrible brown paint would not budge until I finally resorted to harsh chemical strippers. But unfortunately, as much of the original finish (or "polish" as it's called in Britain) had worn or flaked off, the brown paint was slopped directly onto bare wood in some places and on top of the polish in others. Once I stripped the nasty paint and polish, the result was a rather blotchy looking case, since the brown pigment had been absorbed into the bare wood in places. After a lot of scrubbing with steel wool and lye-based cleaners and a bit of sanding, most of the blotchy appearance was gone. Next I had to replace small bits of veneer that were missing or damaged. About ¼ of an inch of veneer on the front and rear of the lid plus some other bits needed to be fabricated. It was a challenge to match the grain, but I was reasonably satisfied with the outcome. I also had to fabricate 4 L-shaped feet that are attached to the bottom of the case. I used the remnants of the sole remaining original as a template.

Parts: The motor was a mess. Both mainsprings had been broken and repaired using rivets -- 2 breaks and repairs on each spring. The governor had 3 home-made springs of varying lengths and thicknesses. I picked up the necessary replacements at Union last year. I dislike the Gramophone Company practice of riveting the governor weight to the governor spring, so I picked up some Victor weights that attach with machine screws as replacements along with the governor springs. I have nearly all the needed replacement parts on hand now including a reproduction leather handle (purchased from zwarteschijf, I might add).

I just need to get motivated and get it done. Once it's done I'll post pictures.

And by the way, since acquiring the 118 nearly 3 years ago, I also managed to buy a model 112, but it's in better condition than the 118 was.

I do have a question for you, Steve regarding the color of paint on inside of the horn of the 118. Since mine was painted over with the yucky brown paint, it is difficult to discern the original color. It kind of seems that the original color might have been black rather than the orangish brown I've noticed in pictures of other 118s as well as my 112. Is that possible? Or were they all orangish brown?
Best regards ... AZ*


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:49 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1498
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
My word, that 118 did need a lot of help. Good luck with the rest of the restoration and I look forward to seeing the finished item shown here (along with a reminder of the link to the 'original' pictures might be useful).

Regarding the color of the horn - that's a difficult item to be certain about. In truth no one knows for sure. My 114 (almost identical to 118) has its original paint in pretty rough condition and it's a reddish brown colour, probably more rust color than anything else.

Previous to this I also had another 114 which I completely restored . This machine also had remnants of a reddish brown color under black paint which was not original. However my 112 which is as close to mint as they come has a black horn! I have seen pictures of 118's showing the red colour in the horns and these have all been 'museum quality' examples. My conclusions therefore are that the 114/118 had the reddish brown color whilst the teak 101 and 112 had black horns. I have also seen a teak 102 with the ebonised bandings and that also had the brown horn. However we can never be conclusive about this and no one could ever challenge your choice as these machines are very rare and usually turn up in poor condition or with some restoration.

HTH

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:04 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Michiana
AZ* wrote:
Steve wrote:
Did you ever finish restoring the 118 you bought, AZ? I would like to see it if you have!

No, not finished yet. I was making good progress, but got interrupted by work and family matters, so I put it aside for a while. I hope to get back to it soon. If not, it will shortly be too hot to work on it in the garage, so I would have to wait until autumn and cooler temperatures.

The horrible brown paint would not budge until I finally resorted to harsh chemical strippers. But unfortunately, as much of the original finish (or "polish" as it's called in Britain) had worn or flaked off, the brown paint was slopped directly onto bare wood in some places and on top of the polish in others. Once I stripped the nasty paint and polish, the result was a rather blotchy looking case, since the brown pigment had been absorbed into the bare wood in places. After a lot of scrubbing with steel wool and lye-based cleaners and a bit of sanding, most of the blotchy appearance was gone. Next I had to replace small bits of veneer that were missing or damaged. About ¼ of an inch of veneer on the front and rear of the lid plus some other bits needed to be fabricated. It was a challenge to match the grain, but I was reasonably satisfied with the outcome. I also had to fabricate 4 L-shaped feet that are attached to the bottom of the case. I used the remnants of the sole remaining original as a template.

Parts: The motor was a mess. Both mainsprings had been broken and repaired using rivets -- 2 breaks and repairs on each spring. The governor had 3 home-made springs of varying lengths and thicknesses. I picked up the necessary replacements at Union last year. I dislike the Gramophone Company practice of riveting the governor weight to the governor spring, so I picked up some Victor weights that attach with machine screws as replacements along with the governor springs. I have nearly all the needed replacement parts on hand now including a reproduction leather handle (purchased from zwarteschijf, I might add).

I just need to get motivated and get it done. Once it's done I'll post pictures.

And by the way, since acquiring the 118 nearly 3 years ago, I also managed to buy a model 112, but it's in better condition than the 118 was.

I do have a question for you, Steve regarding the color of paint on inside of the horn of the 118. Since mine was painted over with the yucky brown paint, it is difficult to discern the original color. It kind of seems that the original color might have been black rather than the orangish brown I've noticed in pictures of other 118s as well as my 112. Is that possible? Or were they all orangish brown?



Would you mind hint for the future?

Should one have to strip paint from atop a flaking original finish which has allowed the paint to get stuck down in the grain of woos, one will do well to give the piece two or three good coats of three pound shellac after the initial stripping process, and then lay it by for a week or so. After allowing the shellac to fully harden, attack the work afresh with your solvent based stripper. You will find that the paint comes out of the grain of the wood like magic!


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline
Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 1128
Location: Michiana
AZ* wrote:
Steve wrote:
Did you ever finish restoring the 118 you bought, AZ? I would like to see it if you have!

No, not finished yet. I was making good progress, but got interrupted by work and family matters, so I put it aside for a while. I hope to get back to it soon. If not, it will shortly be too hot to work on it in the garage, so I would have to wait until autumn and cooler temperatures.

The horrible brown paint would not budge until I finally resorted to harsh chemical strippers. But unfortunately, as much of the original finish (or "polish" as it's called in Britain) had worn or flaked off, the brown paint was slopped directly onto bare wood in some places and on top of the polish in others. Once I stripped the nasty paint and polish, the result was a rather blotchy looking case, since the brown pigment had been absorbed into the bare wood in places. After a lot of scrubbing with steel wool and lye-based cleaners and a bit of sanding, most of the blotchy appearance was gone. Next I had to replace small bits of veneer that were missing or damaged. About ¼ of an inch of veneer on the front and rear of the lid plus some other bits needed to be fabricated. It was a challenge to match the grain, but I was reasonably satisfied with the outcome. I also had to fabricate 4 L-shaped feet that are attached to the bottom of the case. I used the remnants of the sole remaining original as a template.

Parts: The motor was a mess. Both mainsprings had been broken and repaired using rivets -- 2 breaks and repairs on each spring. The governor had 3 home-made springs of varying lengths and thicknesses. I picked up the necessary replacements at Union last year. I dislike the Gramophone Company practice of riveting the governor weight to the governor spring, so I picked up some Victor weights that attach with machine screws as replacements along with the governor springs. I have nearly all the needed replacement parts on hand now including a reproduction leather handle (purchased from zwarteschijf, I might add).

I just need to get motivated and get it done. Once it's done I'll post pictures.

And by the way, since acquiring the 118 nearly 3 years ago, I also managed to buy a model 112, but it's in better condition than the 118 was.

I do have a question for you, Steve regarding the color of paint on inside of the horn of the 118. Since mine was painted over with the yucky brown paint, it is difficult to discern the original color. It kind of seems that the original color might have been black rather than the orangish brown I've noticed in pictures of other 118s as well as my 112. Is that possible? Or were they all orangish brown?



Would you mind hint for the future?

Should one have to strip paint from atop a flaking original finish which has allowed the paint to get stuck down in the grain of woos, one will do well to give the piece two or three good coats of three pound shellac after the initial stripping process, and then lay it by for a week or so. After allowing the shellac to fully harden, attack the work afresh with your solvent based stripper. You will find that the paint comes out of the grain of the wood like magic!


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:40 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 427
Location: USA
Uncle Vanya wrote:
Would you mind hint for the future?

Should one have to strip paint from atop a flaking original finish which has allowed the paint to get stuck down in the grain of woos, one will do well to give the piece two or three good coats of three pound shellac after the initial stripping process, and then lay it by for a week or so. After allowing the shellac to fully harden, attack the work afresh with your solvent based stripper. You will find that the paint comes out of the grain of the wood like magic!

I'm always in the market for tips from experts, Uncle. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely file this one away in the old gray matter for use on a future project. I know that you know what you're talking about since I've seen examples of your fine work.
Best regards ... AZ*


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 Post subject: Re: Hmv 113
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:49 pm 
Offline
Victor II
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 427
Location: USA
Steve wrote:
I have seen pictures of 118's showing the red colour in the horns and these have all been 'museum quality' examples. My conclusions therefore are that the 114/118 had the reddish brown color whilst the teak 101 and 112 had black horns. I have also seen a teak 102 with the ebonised bandings and that also had the brown horn. However we can never be conclusive about this and no one could ever challenge your choice as these machines are very rare and usually turn up in poor condition or with some restoration.

HTH

Thanks, Steve. Based on your knowledge of the various Indian model horn colors, I think I'll choose the reddish brown.
Best regards ... AZ*


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