Please, help to identify this early La voix de son maître gramophone

[phonodesbois]

We just found, fresh from a French attic, this large gramophone (42 by 42 by 19 cm or around 16.5” by 16.5” by 7.5”). Looking at the papers on the bottom, it seems to have been made in England.
The front decal indicates Cie Frse du gramophone and La Voix de son Maître .
Could it be a dual spring Monarch ? If so, any idea of the model?
Do you have more info on this model and some idea on when it was made? As well a photograph of the same model in good condition would be the icing on the cake !!
I suppose that the reproducer was an exhibition one.
Thanks for your help and our best wishes for 2023.
Jeff

[gramophoneshane]

What a great machine, and in such great untouched condition too.
While I can't say exactly what model it is, the Registered Design Number is from 1912.
I'm also not sure when the fancy scroll transfer on the front started being used, but I think it was around 1913-14, so I'm guessing that's probably approximately when your machine was made.
Hopefully one of the more knowledgeable British collectors can give you a more accurate date, and let you know just which model it is.
Generally speaking a 12" turntable and multi spring motor would indicate some sort of Senior Monarch, but I'm not even sure if that terminology was still being used when your machine was manufactured.
You are correct that an Exhibition soundbox will be the right one for this machine.
Again, one of our British collectors can probably advise exactly which version of the Exhibition would be best used as a replacement.

I would definitely avoid doing a strip and repolish of a machine in this condition.
I think a good clean and wax of both the cabinet and horn would be all you'd need to do to this to make it look fantastic.
I'm not even sure I'd bother repairing the wood chip on the rear corner of the motor board, although if you're experienced with the use of stains and shellac, you could probably successfully repair the chip and refinish it in such a way as to blend the repair to match the original finish.

[Steve]

The UK model with that cabinet is a Style No. 7 or "Model 7" but over here it was the replacement for the Senior Monarch as Shane suggested and dates from 1910 onwards. However the 7 had the triple spring motor and I note this French model only has a double. I recall some later re-numbered "7's" also had the smaller double spring motor in the UK for a time before it was phased out in the mid 20s.

The French machine might well have received a different model number anyway? One other notable point is that the tonearm, back bracket and elbow on this machine are the earlier types. The later period UK 7 had the drop in type elbow and different back bracket and arm so I would suggest this configuration might be unique for this particular French model, be it catalogued as a "7" or not, especially as I note it also utilises the later style of Morning Glory horn.

I'd guess it's from the post WW1 period but predates early 20s?

[IainW]

To my eyes the label reads HFOS although the lettering is quite faint.

[phonodesbois]

Thanks all for the infos !

Gramophoneshane : of course we will just clean and wax it. When I removed the back bracket, the finish is oak which is a bit surprising as I’m sure that the mahogany finish was made at the factory.

Steve : do they still used the exhibition reproducer after WW1 ?

IainW : the best we can read is « H OS »

[IainW]

I think the 'O' in HFOS stands for Oak, mahogany would have been HFM. I have no idea what the 'S' stands for, greater minds than mine may be able to help.
Iain

[Inigo]

Maybe you already know this, but of course the two badly bent motorboard stands should be straightened and fastened in place, the two screw holes at both sides tell you where they must be attached to. this is intended to be opened from above using the button next to the crank. The bottom board must be nailed to the body, it seems there are the nail holes for that, and still one half-nail is there...
Looks marvelous! What a fine machine!
BTW, at the top left corner of the registered model label it says it's for HFO & HFM... just another clue... but the label of the quality control says H...OS. So that could be the HFOS someone says. It's only to decipher what the final S stands for...

[Oedipus]

Yes, it is essentially a Model 7 (HFO), but with a double-spring motor, so perhaps the 'S' stands for 'special'. Chances are that this was made during WW1, when supplies were problematic, and many gramophones had to leave the factory with non-standard specifications. It has a 'quadrant' speed control, which seems to have come in about 1915, and the motor has the later finer gear teeth (don't know exactly when they came in, it's one of those indeterminable changes that occurred during WW1. Another is when the flanged elbow gave way to the 'plug' type, as is the change in the neck of the Morning Glory horn. But horns have often been changed over the years, so that is not a specific guide to dating a machine.

I think it is unlikely to be later than 1920, probably 1915-18 The sound box would have been an Exhibition, probably a USA made one, and possibly one of those with the Nipper trade-mark and 'His Master's Voice' in small font underneath, which seem to belong to the WW1 period. From about 1918 Exhibitions were made at Hayes, and have 'His Master's Voice' in large font, with no Nipper, and 'Made in England' round the base.

The transfer on the case is one that was not used on horn models in the UK, and not at all, in that size with a black border. A smaller version with the black border appeared on some hornless models and also on the Model 105 portable.

[IainW]

The longer I look at it, the more clearly I can see the letter 'F' (immediately below the stamped 5 and above the printed 1). Am I the only one who can see it? Maybe an optical delusion on my part!
Iain

[gramophoneshane]

I can kind of see it too.
I'm looking on my phone and tilting the screen at different angles seems to alter how much I can see.
The top horizontal line of the F is the easiest to see at pretty much any angle.