Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

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Garret
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Garret »

Good Morning!

Everyone, thank you so much for the input. Stay tuned! I should have some exciting news to share with you all in a few weeks. (pardon the pun)

Best,

Garret

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Steve
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Steve »

My 2 spring EMG soundbox literally blows the doors off anything else I've ever heard,
I'm not surprised you say this, Sean. If I recall correctly you have a Mark 9. Well, the horse-shoe shape nickel plated brass soundbox that comes with that machine is, in my opinion, one of the very best EMG soundboxes. It is particularly good with jazz and dance records. It can be used with steel or fibre.

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OrthoSean
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by OrthoSean »

Yes, that's the one, AND it has a mica diaphragm, which appears to be completely original. It's also fun to take it and demo it on other machines, especially the Victor III or Schoolhouse with the oak horn. Talk about great sound! Did these ever come with an aluminum diaphragm? Someplace along the lines, somebody told me mine was probably one of the first of the production, but I can't recall who / where? :?

Sean

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Steve
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Steve »

The Mark 9 soundbox always came with an aluminium diaphragm and sounds unbelievably great with it. A mica diaphragm on a Mark 9? Never heard that one before. The very early EMG soundboxes which were thinly disguised "Exhibition" type, had mica diaphragms. Maybe your Mark 9 has an earlier type of soundbox and not the horse-shoe shape?

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OrthoSean
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by OrthoSean »

Interesting. I can't say what has happened to this in the 80-ish years before I owned it, but I'd swear the mica is a very old one and looks original, the reproducer had very hard and old gaskets in it as well (I know this is a rather silly sounding statement!). This is now going to lead to me to ask...does anyone make alumninum diaphragms now for these? I doubt it, I suppose, but I'd love to find one to at least try!

Sean

Frankia
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Frankia »

Hi Garret,
I've only just now come upon this interesting discussion and want to add my own tuppence worth. I've owned a 194 myself, and also a 163, and still have an Expert Senior, EMG Xb normal size horn and HMV 202. But the gramophone in my possession that beats all of those for sensitivity to detail, depth of bass and grandeur of reproduction has to be the EMG XB Oversize, which I don't think has been mentioned in the discussion so far. Of all the gramophones I've heard in almost fifty years of listening to acoustic reproduction, it outshines the opposition for me. I also love the Expert sound and would not under any circumstances want to be without it, and I also like the HMV re-entrant sound.
There is a very noticeable difference in the experience of listening to a big re-entrant and listening to any of the large external horn gramophones of the EMG/Expert stable. Both styles of reproduction are beautiful, and speaking for myself, I'd hate to be deprived of the re-entrant sound in my house.
However to answer your question, if I had to choose between a HMV 193/4 or an Expert Senior, I'd pick the Senior.
But if I was being sent to the desert island for the duration and could only bring one gramophone with me, it would have to be the EMG XB Oversize!

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OrthoSean
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by OrthoSean »

As requested by Steve, here's a photo of the support I've built for my Mk IX horn, nothing fancy, but it's adjustable so I can raise the horn slowly and without fear of hurting anything. Since putting this together, it's come up well over 10 inches and I'd say it has another 10 or more to go.

Sean
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emg.JPG

Garret
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Garret »

Gentlemen,

I bit the bullet on the Senior. I'll be sure to let you all know how it works out. Wish me luck!

-Garret

Lencoplayer78rpm
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Lencoplayer78rpm »

HMV194 v EMG

I have been collecting 78s for about 40 years (now age 60) and although I have two first class turntables with a Shure M44 cartridge and various size stylii together with EQ adjustment, I still get the most pleasure from playing my records on my HMV194 which I have had for a number of years.

I have never had an EMG but they are coming up for sale more often here in the UK, I guess as their owners fade away in increasing numbers. Many years ago I collected some records from Ron Jewson (dealer in North London) who had an EMG which he demonstrated to me, and I remember being very impressed with the immediacy of the sound. Maybe someone out there would be able to tell me the model that he had, as comments on this forum seem to put only the Expert, 10A and 10B above the HMV 194.

One thing that I don't believe has been said before, is that when presented with an EMG one tends to instinctively stand in front of the horn. This is not always so with the HMV 194 as the horn cannot be seen; if you listen to the HMV194 from a position which is in front of the middle of the horn it is surprising how 'open' the sound is, but if you move away from this alignment the sound quality drifts off quickly and I wonder if this is the reason why HMV re entrants have been described as comparatively 'boxey' in the past.

Most advocates of EMGs seem to compare vocal and bands, which tend to need the best response in the mid frequency range. I like piano solo in general, and I find that the HMV194 has a glorious tenor and good bass response - one of the most important areas for piano.

I would be interested in any further comment about whether it is worth pursuing an EMG and what model. Many thanks in advance. Richard

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Steve
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Re: Sound Comparison: Expert Senior or HMV 193

Post by Steve »

Richard,
If you're going for an EMG try to find a Mark 10A or preferably 10B. The Expert Senior is the comparable model of Expert, made before the 10B came out in 1933. The Expert Senior is an outstanding machine although a bit brutal to look at! It was the gramophone which spurred EMG on to produce its modified Mark 10, the "B", which is notably superior to its predecessors.

Incidentally, the 202/3 are quite an improvement over the 194. Everything you say about the 194 is also true of the 202, although the sound is literally bigger, bolder and even more transparent.

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