History of the Pathéphone ?

[patrick_l]

Hi, everyone.

I'm from France. I don't speak a lot of english, so I apologize for grammatical errors that could be contained in this writing.

I would like to thank the team of this forum, as well as its members, who are all great passionate erudite. Although I only recently joined this fine forum, I spent hours reading you. And frankly, I have only two words to say – 'Congratulations' and 'Thank you'.

Your forum is really amazing, hyper interesting and incredibly enriching. It contains a ton of constructive information about Antique Talking Machines & music. I do not think it was possible to find such a specialized forum in the world.

In french-speaking countries, we have until now nothing like this. I must say, I'm quite envious, lol.

But I digress. Let's go back to the point.

I just bought (from a reputable collector) a Pathéphone No. 6. It is in very good original condition (1909). It has never been "restored", with the exception of its reproducer and its rubber tube connecting the reproducer to the arm.

Over the last few days, I travel tirelessly the Web to find information on the history of the Pathéphone’s. And particularly on the Pathéphone No. 6. So far I have found nothing, except for specific information on the "high end" items such as number 8, 10, 12, or D, E, F, G, P ...

This is very surprising not to find information in France on devices that have been designed and manufactured yet there, and sold widely.

Dear friends of this forum, could you enlighten me and help me in my research?
I'd be very grateful for any tips you could give me.

Thanks in advance.
Patrick

[Steve]

Patrick,

Welcome to the ONLY English language forum dedicated solely to the wide ranging subject of talking machines and in particular to the "Perpetually Baffled By Pathé Society"! Don't worry, you have not been looking in the wrong place(s) so far; I have been trying to obtain information on Pathé for nearly TEN years and have come to the conclusion that no information exists out there. Certainly what little does exist is contradictory, confusing and incomplete.

I'm not certain your "6" is actually a "Modele 6" at all. Certainly the original reproducer has been swapped for a "Concert" type and the horn is possibly a later addition / swap too. Pathephones not exhibiting the brass ID plaque were usually retailed by shops that catalogued the machine as something of their own "house brand". Has your machine got an ID plaque?

Also the numbered models did not appear until 1910. The '6' fell in the new range brought in to replace the original letter designation range (A-E). The external horn models all were given EVEN numbers ie. 2,4,6,8,10,12 whilst the internal or "Salon" range of instruments were given ODD numbers 1,3,5 and upwards. At some point in 1911 the models 14 and 16 were added but these were VERY short-lived it might appear. Then later in 1911 the Model 18 appeared that if logic followed through would have been the creme-de-le-creme of the open horn models. However it wasn't! With the 14 and 16 high end models dropped, the 18 was a considerably cheaper "expensive" model! Logic? Non!

If you haven't visited http://www.archeophone.org yet I'd recommend it as it's one of the very few sites where reproductions of a couple of Pathéphone catalogues are freely available to download. Also try: http://www.phono.org/Catalog/Pathéphone.html. Please note the "1912" catalogue there is actually the first 1911 catalogue! That "little" inaccuracy has cost me 8 years of some serious head-scratching.

We could do with an informal Pathé collectors' group with free information exchange. Please let me know if you do manage to find out anything.

Regards,

Steve

[US PHONO]

My Pathé 6 is exactly the same so I do not think you need any worries in this respect.

Steve has summarized the models of Pathé very well. The first Pathé disc machine was the A which was a travelling arm machine.

[Starkton]

Dear friends of this forum, could you enlighten me and help me in my research?
I'd be very grateful for any tips you could give me.

Research is difficult in France, almost lacking contemporary phonograph and gramophone trade papers. Only the "Phono-Cine Gazette", published in Paris between 1905 and 1908, comes to my mind. Furthermore, the language barrier makes it difficult for us to research French books and papers in public libraries. You are French, and you are interested in the matter, why don't you take on the task to research the phonograph history of your native country? I did the same for Germany.

[Steve]

Dear friends of this forum, could you enlighten me and help me in my research?
I'd be very grateful for any tips you could give me.

Research is difficult in France, almost lacking contemporary phonograph and gramophone trade papers. Only the "Phono-Cine Gazette", published in Paris between 1905 and 1908, comes to my mind. Furthermore, the language barrier makes it difficult for us to research French books and papers in public libraries. You are French, and you are interested in the matter, why don't you take on the task to research the phonograph history of your native country? I did the same for Germany.

I'd second that suggestion!

Also, Starkton, if you have already done this for Germany, is there any chance you might compile something together with the english translation at some point? I am also very interested in German machines but access for me is not easy.

[Starkton]

I have already written a number of articles for "The Sound Box" (renamed "The Antique Phonograph"), beginning with German tinfoil phonographs and proceeding with a series of articles about the first commercial gramophones and discs of 1889-1893. Over the years, I received zero feedback for my meticulously researched articles, which tempered my enthusiasm somewhat. In recent years, to get more immediate response, I got involved in the German gramophone forum: http://grammophon-platten.de/news.php

[FloridaClay]

Patrick,

If your post is an example, your English is very good. No need to apologize.

I too have found trying to find solid information about Pathé machines a frustrating exercise. It is remarkable that there is, to my knowledge, no really good book on the subject one can turn to for research in identifying machines and, for example, gathering information for a proper restoration. A major void waiting to be filled.

Clay

[Steve]

I have already written a number of articles for "The Sound Box" (renamed "The Antique Phonograph"), beginning with German tinfoil phonographs and proceeding with a series of articles about the first commercial gramophones and discs of 1889-1893. Over the years, I received zero feedback for my meticulously researched articles, which tempered my enthusiasm somewhat. In recent years, to get more immediate response, I got involved in the German gramophone forum: http://grammophon-platten.de/news.php

Sorry, I haven't heard of "The Sound Box". What is it exactly, and how do I get a copy?

I'm not surprised you didn't get any feedback. It'd be exactly the same in the UK.

[alang]

Hi Steve,

"The Sound Box" used to be the name of the quarterly publication of the "Antique Phonograph Society" (APS). Since APS merged with the "Michigan Antique Phonograph Society" (MAPS) a couple years ago their combined quarterly publication is now called "The Antique Phonograph". Please see here for more information, how to purchase back issues, and how to join the new "Antique Phonograph Society" http://www.antiquephono.org/. The four annual issues are well worth the membership fee IMO.

Andreas

[VintageTechnologies]

Welcome to the forum! It is indeed surprising that more information about Pathé does not exist in France. I have only five Pathé disk phonographs, but hundreds of Pathé records.