E.M.G Davey Mark numbers

[Loudbass]

Here's the entry for the gramophone in question.
No Mark number is mentioned. I'd love to know where it went.

[emgcr]

Many thanks Tom and it occurs to me that these Mk VIs, if that is indeed what they are, were possibly built in pretty small numbers in view of the nearly coincident advent of the better sounding and very popular Mk X. This might account for the Mark being virtually unknown ?

[chunnybh]

Another reason for no advertisements for the Mk VI may well be the timing. 1929 was a boon year for E.M.G with lots of new designs by Davey and investment in new products like the E.M.G / Darrieulat Record Storage Cabinet. Perhaps it was Ginns idea to combine the Darrieulat cabinet with the Davey Mk V. This would have happened just as Ginn was loosing E.M.G and advertising the Mk VI would have been awkward. The Mk VI, if that is what it is, would have been a monster machine. The Darrieulat cabinets on their own, empty are extremely heavy.

[Loudbass]

The combination machine would also have been pretty pricy. With the Mahogany Mark V at £27 and the record cabinet at £13 10s the machine in contention must surely have been priced in the upper 30s? Thus it would have been way more than the X when it appeared (£32 in mahogany) and similar to the VII (£40 in oak, £45 in mahogany) with its longer acoustic system and more practical shape.

[chunnybh]

I've been looking through early copies of The Gramophone magazine. Here are a few quotes by date.

June 1927-" Mr. E. M. Ginn is, as far as we know, the only maker who is using the Wilson horn for one of his standard models which works out at 15 guineas.

Jan 1928- "I have fitted Mr. Ginn’s special hand-made tone arm to my old machine, and with it and the Wilson horn"

April 1928-" At last there is news of a simple method of converting any old gramophone into one which is capable of the present standard of reproduction. It comes from Mr. E M. Ginn (267, High Holborn, W.C.l), indefatigable as ever in the perfecting of designs, and consists of a new tone-arm, a heavy back casting and a Wilson Panharmonic horn, the box of the casting and tone-arm being logarithmic to the horn. Apparently it can be fitted to very nearly every type of gramophone with great simplicity, the important point being to set the tone-arm so as to get good needle-track alignment; and now anyone who has been hesitating to scrap an old friend can convert it into an E.M.G. external horn model."

July 1928-" The E.M.G. tone-arm is of the goose-neck type that some critics are fond of ridiculing as theoretically unsound and absurd. Take no notice of them. A goose-neck can be a decided advantage provided the right kind of sound-box is used with it. This advantage is enhanced in the E.M.G. arm by the provision of an adjustment whereby the air-space at the so- called dead end can be varied within wide limits. It is an expensive tone-arm. Complete with its extension tube, it costs five pounds. But let us remember that the labourer is worthy of his hire. An article that has to be produced in limited quantity by a skilled instrument-maker cannot be cheap. A Wilson horn costs three guineas. An E.M.G. sound-box, tuned to a customer’s requirements, costs thirty shillings; no “ life-belt ” is required. Total cost, nine pounds thirteen shillings.
I can thoroughly recommend the E.M.G. sound-box, the purchase of which is, of course, a purely optional matter; but let me beg* beseech, implore my readers not to ruin the combination of tone-arm and horn I have described by attaching to it a Pianina, Astra or other sound-box of the cart-wheel type. There may be occasions when these large boxes are useful; this is emphatically not one of them."

These quotes show that perhaps Ginn was offering his conversion kits as early as January 1928. Before Davey was in the picture.

With that in mind what exactly did Davey bring to the E.M.G Mk VIII? Perhaps that is why he was reluctant to give it a Mark number until later.

[chunnybh]

new tone-arm, a heavy back casting and a Wilson Panharmonic horn

My mistake, I missed the "back casting".
Perhaps it was this Seymour parts kit?

[emgcr]

Interesting! It would appear that the Seymour tonearm model might well be earlier than 1928 since the EMG advert’ in July 1927 (see above---page 2 of this post) refers to …..“the E.M.G. Hand-made Tone Arm, specially designed for the Panharmonic Horn (this arm contains an adjustable air space resonating chamber)”.....which would suggest the goose-neck arm with Quincke tube or do we think both models were offered at the same time ? There is some confusion because of the reference to the heavy “back casting” which could refer to the Seymour external cast iron bracket or the internal cast bronze conduit in the Mk VIII.

[Loudbass]

Do we have an exact date for Davey joining EMG? It is interesting to note that in His Masters Gramophone by Proudfoot and Oakley the HMV model 32 is said to have been launched in March 1927. This featured an internal conduit. In due course the Gramophone Exchange offered a Wilson horn and Astra soundbox to create a poor mans EMG. Which came first, the 32 or the (Davey) improved Mark VIII?

[Steve]

Which came first, the 32 or the (Davey) improved Mark VIII?

The HMV 32 was launched quite a while before the EMG Mark VIII. At the time EMG was offering the simple "Wilson Horn Model" with either the facility to convert existing customers' machines or to provide a completely new machine (albeit very crudely made at this time). The Mark VIII was a later development in 1928/9 and was quite obviously "inspired by" the HMV Model 32.

[emgcr]

Thank you Steve. Barry Williamson's book "H.M.V. Gramophones 1921 to 1936" also shows the Table Model 32 entering the catalogue for the first time in 1927. The 32 system incorporating the internal conduit works well with Wilson and EMG external horns, the only downside being that it was made of thin-wall steel which allows some unwanted resonances. If the conduit is heavily lagged the acoustic result is very little different from the full EMG experience---other things (soundbox etc) being equal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P1trPQYh_s EMG Xb Oversize horn with EMG two-spring soundbox.

And the comparison using the correct HMV horn but still with the two-spring EMG soundbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO4v99CVu_w