Hines auto brake help

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Hines57
Victor Jr
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Hines auto brake help

Post by Hines57 »

I write in this forum for the first time to seek some help with a lovely Hines gramophone that I recently acquired at auction. It is in good order apart from the automatic brake. As this is the only braking mechanism on the machine and one of its patented features, I'd really like to fix the problem. I've explored the original patent application and it appears that a spring mechanism may be missing but the diagram is not too clearly reproduced and I've never seen another of these machines. I have appended some pictures of the part on my machine and I'd be grateful for any thoughts on how to address the issue or else any photos from other forum members of a similar brake mechanism. I will be most grateful for any help.

George
Hines brake
Hines brake
Hines brake 2
Hines brake 2

Hines57
Victor Jr
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by Hines57 »

As I've had no response to this post, I've done some research and tinkering and fixed the issue. As it might help others restore a Hines machine, and a very splendid and innovative one it is too, I thought I'd post my labours up here.

There is a 1915 patent for the Hines automatic brake. The diagram therein shows a compression spring keeps the brake pressed against the turntable until it is latched away from it to play a record. However, there was obviously some development of the mechanism after the patent was filed because there is no obvious place on my brake to locate such a spring or the forked rod that runs up its centre in the patent. The odd thing about my brake was that there was no obvious wear to the paint, until I started experimenting with it, but it seemed to me that a space on the pivot bolt of the brake suggests a torsion spring might have done the job of the compression spring. So, I ordered one that nearly fitted from an auction site and a few judicious bends made in it got the thing fitted and working. To be honest, the spring is a bit too flimsy to apply as much force to the brake as I would ideally like but it does work. I might thus replace the new leather brake I have also installed with a rubber one for more fiction. Anyway, I have photographed the result for others.
Attachments
IMG_0678.JPG

Hines57
Victor Jr
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by Hines57 »

Here's a couple of photos of the Hines Gramophone with the the brake in situ.
Attachments
IMG_0680.JPG
IMG_0679.JPG

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Steve Levi
Victor II
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:49 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by Steve Levi »

Very informative and interesting. That is a beautiful
machine. Thanks for posting! Steve

gokenyon
Victor Jr
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by gokenyon »

Hi there,
I have recently acquired a Hines and it has a very similar mechanism to the one that you describe.
Can you point me in the direction of the patent? Or upload it?
I want to understand it too.
The mechanism I have has springs and is worn. I will upload pictures shortly.
Currently, my unit is stripped down for refurb.
Will be working on this over the next few weeks.
Any input on Hines Table Grand Gramophone is appreciated. I have nothing to go on. This is my first unit.

Regards
Gareth
Attachments
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism
Hines autobrake mechanism

gokenyon
Victor Jr
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by gokenyon »

Found the Patent - attached...
Attachments
US1243174_Brake patent.pdf
(473.03 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

Hines57
Victor Jr
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by Hines57 »

The problem with the patent is that it bears only passing resemblance to the mechanism on the machine. In particular, there is no post (marked 9 in the patent) to which a compression spring can be attached and braced. So, I used a torsion spring wound around the pivot of the brake lever to keep the brake pad bearing against the turntable. the movement of the setting of the silver lever, which the tone arm eventually triggers when the tone arm gets to the end of the record, lifts the brake pad from the table to allow it to spin. The pressure of the tone arm on the silver setting lever at the end of the record triggers the release of the spring brake pad to bear against the turntable and stop it. My torsion spring fix does the job but there have been Hines machines in auctions that seem to use a different spring arrangement but photos have never been clear enough to make out attachments. Anyway, hope this helps.

Actually, I think the post is marked 25 and the pin within the spring is marked 9 - apologies for any confusion.

gokenyon
Victor Jr
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm

Re: Hines auto brake help

Post by gokenyon »

Hi George
Thanks for the reply.
Do you have any further imagery you can share?
Regards
Gareth

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