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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:46 am 
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Victor III
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Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
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Location: My gramophone repair room
Marco: I do not like the idea of installing a new motor, if the motor is an Excelsior Werke motor, even if this not have been confirmed here. The logo on top of the wooden lid, at least shows that parts of the gramophone is from Excelsior. If it is only the governor spring parts that are missing, I will not give in, since I know these can be replicated, but if it proves too difficult, I maybe have to throw in the towel. I am not afraid to start working on the main spring really, but if many components are missing, it is a totally different situation. As told in a thread in the tips section of the forum today, I teach my brain to see and understand how the motor is working, and can't yet see what parts are missing from a motor at first sight, or even at second and third sight:;)
I however not like to give in before I have to, and also...am not very happy about possibly putting in a new motor in the gramophone, and make it a frankenphone..if it not already is so..that is of course another question, since the Pathé reproducer already is installed on the gramophone, that obviously is German made. I still can't see why someone would install a Pathé reproducer on a German gramophone, since German reproducers are cheaper to buy ( If I am right)..
Opinions are very welcome, if it is better to leave this gramophone and sell parts, or install a new motor and repair it.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:58 am 
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Victor IV
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 1065
Location: Italy
Oh, yes, excuse me, a picture deceived me and I thought at first that the whole governor assembly was missing, but no, it actually seems that only the springs and weights are missing and that the remaining parts are still there.

Be prepared to experiment a bit: every motor requires springs of appropriate length and stiffness, and also appropriate weights. If springs and weights are not of the appropriate type, the motor in general will run nontheless, but it may prove impossibile to set it at 78 RPM within the range of the adjustment screw. If you can, I suggest you buy the springs that seem more appropriate, but also the two adjacent less stiff/more stiff types, if available at all. Same with weights.

Concerning the details of the machine, since it seems to be German made I suggest you open a thread on the grammophon-platten.de forum https://grammophon-platten.de/e107_plug ... /forum.php which is very active, better in German but also in English if you don't speak German. Some of the members here are also members there.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:25 am 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
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Location: My gramophone repair room
Marco: Thanks for all suggestions, it is hihly appreciated. I will post photos here of the process of restoration.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
This is again a very old thread, one of the first I started about a year ago.
I would like to try to finish this project this autumn, or at least advance a bit on the project before pausing it for the winter.

I have now checked the main spring, it is good, and the spring container has in the past been welded and in total it looks good inside the container. My next task is now to try rebuild the governor blades and weights. I have some ideas, since I earlier this summer re build a Polyphon table top governor with new blades and weights from copper coins (and blades from a portable machine). I was able to get that machine up and running, and want to give this machine also a try. The governor axis on this very old machine has a spring at the bottom of the axis. But what is this piano wire on top of the same axis? Has something broken off here, and do you think there also should be a kind of spring on top, a spring somewhat similar to the spring at the bottom of the axis?

Question number 2 is what is the purpose on the long arm that ends close to the governor axis? Is something broken off? Is it a stabilizer? I do not have this arm on any of my other horn machines.

I also would like some opinions on the horn. I early this spring carefully was able to repair the horn, with glue and wood filler (Durham's water putty, and the breakage in the wood is now repaired. How would you suggest to even out the coloring? Test different wood dyes, and paint the small area that is repaired only? Somehow I am reluctant to paint the complete horn which would possibly hide the obvious flaw, even if I admittedly have been close to give the horn a permanent holiday when now again starting to look at it....;)

There are no cabinet makers in my area. I this spring showed the horn to a furniture carpenter, even if he is rebuilding old furnitures, he had no advice for the horn, and even doubted I would be able to use wood filler to repair it, something I have proven was possible.


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speed control on the right.jpg
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motor 1.jpg
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motor 2.jpg
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horn 2.jpg
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horn.jpg
horn.jpg [ 417.12 KiB | Viewed 207 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:40 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
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Location: Belmont, North Carolina
DELETED... I didn't realize this thread was from last year.

I read through your entire post and found out that the 4 records made it unharmed, which is good, because they are worth more than what you paid for the entire machine...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


Last edited by Curt A on Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:49 pm 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 730
Location: My gramophone repair room
All the old Pathé records made it ( 3 in total), even if they had been put at the bottom of the the large horn container, with no cardboard or anything wrapped around them. :shock: The rest of the records were ordinary 78 rpms of less interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 5015
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
The three Pathé records look like early center start records...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:05 pm 
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Victor V
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 2219
Location: South Carolina
EWC, for Excelsior Werke Cologne--not EGW, Enormous Gramophone Workings.

Glad you got your records and machine! This will be a nice project.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1196
Location: Luxembourg
nostalgia wrote:
But what is this piano wire on top of the same axis? Has something broken off here, and do you think there also should be a kind of spring on top, a spring somewhat similar to the spring at the bottom of the axis?

Question number 2 is what is the purpose on the long arm that ends close to the governor axis? Is something broken off? Is it a stabilizer? I do not have this arm on any of my other horn machines.



My guess is that the wire and the arm are the ON/OFF system. You push the arm towards the governor and it will catch the wire and stop the governor. Several machines have such kind of control.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this a genuine Pathefone, and is it a "Buy Now" ?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:51 am 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 730
Location: My gramophone repair room
Carlos, you nailed it, thank you !
If I had tested the governor function a bit more last evening, I would have detected that it actually is the manual brake!
The long arm when pushed, will rigthly then catch the piano wire, and stop the governor from spinning. The machine is now all in parts,
I disassembled the complete machine last summer, luckily I know where I have the parts. Learning from mistakes, I now never disassemble a machine
completely if I know I will not finish the project soon. During last autumn (2019) I for a period had 4-5 different projects going on at the same time, this is not how I do things anymore. I would even say I have been lucky to finish them all withougt mixing parts, or losing components.

This gramophone is the last project from last years buys, and also the machine I at the time felt was the baddest purchase, taking into consideration what I paid. When looking at the machine now in 2020, I feel it maybe was not such a bad buy after all. The cabinet is great, I have glued it, and it looks good, and also have some painted decals on one of the sides.

The soundbox is genuine Pathé, and if the records also are center starters, as you say Curt, that's of course also nice. Also the tonearm and bracket are genuine parts.
Then I maybe have only the horn to complain about :?... and also contemplate about.

VanEpsFan1914, thank you also for your nice comment:)

I will try to dig out the records to have a closer look at them, if I find them. They are not lost, but I admittedly have some logistics challenges with my records :roll:


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