The Gramophone Company, hornless identification

[nostalgia]

I have come across this hornless model, and after scrolling the "His Masters Gramophone" book several times, I have come to the conclusion that this must be a "Euro model", made outside the UK, since I can't find the model in the book. Would you say this is a correct assumption?
I still consider buying it because of the soundbox, the exact type of Exhibition I need for my Intermediate Monarch with a lacking soundbox (and winding key, that is not the same winding key as on this machine).
But what have they done to the interior of the gramophone? Any ideas? The seller says it is running and functioning. I have no opportunity to test or see it before I potentially buy it. As told above the soundbox is the reason why I potentially would buy it, but it would of course be interesting to read opinions on what has really happened to this hornless...

For admin: I received a white screen error message when posting this thread, but luckily double checked to avoid duplicate postings.

[epigramophone]

Similar but not identical to the Model 60 on Page 167 Fig.5.18, it has lost the wooden louvres from the horn mouth and there is something amiss with the motor location. The turntable is lopsided and is fouling the motor board. At best loose motor mounting bolts, at worst...?

Personally I find the "hornless" the least attractive of all gramophone styles, just a table model without even a lid to keep out the dust. In over 60 years I have owned one, an HMV58, which was part of a package deal to secure a mint HMV102. I could not get rid of it fast enough.

[Inigo]

own a similar model, but with the old style motor and horn, the French version of the style iii tabletop. The tonearm is the primitive one with the big screwed cap.

[nostalgia]

Thank you for your comments. I agree, the hornless are not particularly attractive, even if I own two already, HMV model 1 in mahogany, and model III in oak, that we also discussed in a thread earlier this summer. I still like these two, maybe also because I have a nostalgic interest in them, since they were among the very first gramophones I started to collect, after a 30 year hibernation. Also the copies I have are shining with no faults, in particular the model 1, and whatever is said or felt..they are still part of the HMV history:;)
If I get this one here for under 50 euro, I will still buy it, not for the case or the motor, (whatever is found in there)...but for the Exhibition soundbox alone. Prices for Exhibition soundboxes 1908-18 are not exactly low on Ebay, when they turn up.

[VanEpsFan1914]

If it were to be restored you would have to fabricate a new bell for the horn. The old wooden horn was held in with reddish beeswax and wood strips, into the mouth of the cast-iron bell.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Contrarywise, I really enjoy the simple, plain and cute design of these models, devoid of embarassing coffin-style lids or of winks to obsolete furniture styles that jar with the high-tech (for the times) machinery of the gramophone.

This nice machine has been through a lot; I hope you'll find time and will to rehaul it as it deserves.

[nostalgia]

I appreciate that there are different opinions on these hornless models. Admittedly, the two hornless models I already have, are beautifully arranged in my small sitting room, and I often get positive comments about them too.
Yes, this fellow has been through a lot, if I get it, I will reflect on what to do with it. I really need the soundbox for my Monarch, but also each time I plan to remove a soundbox from a poorly looking gramophone, I end taking pity on it, and instead try to restore it and make the best of it:;)

[Inigo]

And they can sound fairly well with a well adjusted soundbox. I'm still adjusting mine, but when you finally get the 'sweet spot' adjusting the balance springs screws, they sound wonderfully. Nevertheless, maybe I'm wrong, but i don't expect it to sound well with too strident records. When adjusting the exhibition for proper sound on these, it seems to loose that sweet spot so marvelous to the vocal records. When adjusted for no buzzing on strident loud passages, the sweet vocal records loose that natural sound, and seen somewhat constricted (more pressure on the balance springs).
And if I adjust it for the sweet spot on vocal records, the strident ones sound distorted on loud passages... (less pressure on the balance springs).
Theoretically, it should sound well on all acoustic records, and simply you change from loud to soft needles according to the level of the record. But still I've not achieved that result. I'm being tempted to think that I'd better resign about playing loud strident records with an exhibition soundbox and pretend they should sound well. Simply, there are good and bad acoustic records, and these late will never sound well. So I prefer to adjust this soundbox for natural good sound on soft, well balanced recordings, and not play the strident ones on this machine.
An I wrong?

[nostalgia]

Inigo, I think you are a master of manipulating soundboxes to sound perfect. Myself I have not yet even refurbished any of my Exhibition soundboxes, despite at least 3 of them really need an overhaul. I have opened one of them, looked carefully and deeply at it, before putting it back into my drawer:;) I have the gaskets, and the mica/glass, so it is just about finding the mood to do it properly. Instead I, buried myself deep into servicing and greasing my portables, and even repaired a double spring motor, so the delicate work of soundboxes have been put on hold.
I don't even really know the difference between acoustic and electric records, I just play 5-10 different records repeatedly in my garage room while fixing my gramophones, and have no idea if they are acoustic or electric recordings.
This is something I need read much more about in the next few months, for sure...also to dive deeper into my constantly growing archive of 78 records that most often come for free when I buy a gramophone. Ugh...area is very limited in my small house, and all cupboards are now full with 78 rpm records!

[Inigo]

Nostalgia, thanks for this unsolicited praise, but I'm far from being a master as you've suggested. Certainly the nos. 4 and 5a/b I feel I've dominated these. But the exhibition is new to me, and I'm still learning how to adjust it. By now, the only things I've retained as improvements from my multiple experiments are the glass diaphragm and the connector to correct the tracking angle.
But as I must have suspected before, and am learning now, is that a tiny marvel as this Exhibition soundbox is more delicate, and adjustments herein, due to its smaller size, and to the stiffer design, are much slighter. This small air pump is extremely sensitive to variations and the scale of them must be much reduced. But overall, this device has also a marvelous capacity and is apt to feed the small abrupt horns of these tabletops, as well as the big horns of the huge old Victor V or HMV Monarch.
Will continue learning...