HMV Model 87 portable, in...green color

[nostalgia]

Thank you to Physicist and Barry (Phono48). I started to become almost paranoid about this governor spring, even avoiding to see the obvious simple solution, that the governor parts had to be fitted together at point A and B as physicist marked on his photo. After removing the governor, I was not able to pull it apart at all, it was totally stuck, and my mind started to think this was a fake governor spring ( if something like that exist), or that it was a part belonging to a completely different motor. I took Barrys advice, and yesterday started to heat it up for 10 minutes with a hair dryer (Thanks, Barry), but still no movement, even if the governor was so warm that I could not hold it with bare hands. Then I reached for the pliers, losing patience, still no movements after using as much force as I dared, without breaking the rather thin brake wheel on the governor. Okay, one last thing to do, go for the blowtorch, even if I was unsure if it would harm the rather thin metal on the governor. (The metal parts on this governor is not of the same build quality as on HMV 101/102 models.)
The governor became red in my gloves after a few seconds, then a terrible smell, and the parts dissassembled! Saved by the bell!
I upload some more photos, as we can see the governor spring is built very differently than on the HMV 101/102, (and earlier bigger HMV motors). The fatal part is the long tube that holds the axis of the governor gear. In combination with the graphite grease released from the gear, and maybe also used for oiling the tube itself, the grease in this narrow space creates a disastrous result. The same grease contained inside a spring container, has still some area to move, but in this narrow tube, it gets totally stuck. Without a blowtorch it would have been impossible to release, and as I see it...this major problem most probably have caused truckloads of Model 87 gramophones to end on the landfill.
Another obstacle, the lock rings holding the blades are awkward, at least when not understanding how they work, I immediately missed the screws from earlier models. I spent a long time getting them back on, before I finally understood it was best to put the lock rings on first, then the blades, and then finally rotate the lock rings to hold the blades.
The spring container: Very small, and it is really hard to get the spring to attach to the eye when reinstalling the spring. Pay extra attention if you ever service this model, the spring is really trying its best to hurt you, if it can. I spent 15 minutes.. and lots of sweating, to get it back on.
The winding shaft: I was not able to remove the construction locking the winding gear on this model, it is fastened by a new construction, a small pin, that I was not able to release. I took some photos showing how it looks. I finally decided to drop it, since it also is fairly easy to clean the winding shaft and gear when it is still attached to the motor.
The motor: The motor on this Model 87 is a 26589 motor....as seen on the photos. I don't know what the " 2" over the motor number tells. (Version 2?)(Correct motor number now also corrected in my previous posts in this thread)

[Marco Gilardetti]

Well done! Looks *much* better now, with springs almost flat when in rest position. I have the impression that these springs are a little too long and might have been "borrowed" from another motor. It's... well... "unusual" that the disc goes over the wormgear. But they might still be OK in the end if you succeed to adjust the governor and have the turntable revolving at 78 RPM.

[nostalgia]

Thank you Marco for your greeting ! When you look at photo "governor3" you will see the detailed attachment section of the blades, totally different than from earlier HMV portables, and IF they are borrowed from another machine, it would be a rather difficult task to make this rectangular hole in the blade without the proper tool, as I see it. Whatever, genuine to the machine or not, when the motor was reinstalled, it now runs very well, and the unique speed level adjuster on top of the motor worked great too. It was no problem finding the 78 rpm speed with a stroboscope disc, and now the machine is "purring" happily as it was meant to do from the start.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Very good, I'm happy to read this! Enjoy your 87!

[nostalgia]

I saved a black HMV model 87 from the landfill last week, and thought it could be interesting to see some differences between this Model 87, and the green colored 87A that was the reason for starting this thread some months ago, or simply share the photos of the motor for future reference.
I forgot this evening to take a photo of the plate under the turntable, but this is obviously a Model 87, without the needle container found on model 87A. This model 87 has a 784 motor. (A motor I could not find listed in the HMG book.) ( HMV 794 motor is listed for this model in the book, but I assume they are very related). After servicing the HMV 26589 motor inside the Model 87A, servicing this motor should also be pretty straightforward, since it also appears pretty similar to the 26589 motor, having the same type of governor spring etc. I took a close up photo of the end of the winding key, this is the first time I find a complete winding key where the wood/plastic part is not missing on this later HMV portables.
I also upload a photo of a soundbox similar to the one found on my machine. This is obviously the HMV 23 soundbox, but as the one following my portable, it has no HMV logo in the middle of the soundbox. At first I thought this part of the soundbox had fallen off, but when finding this photo online, I guess it maybe also was manufactured this way during a certain period?

[epigramophone]

If you look at the No.23 soundbox pictured on Page 259 Fig.9.40 of HMG you will see that the HMV logo is a separate pressing. Yours has probably fallen out.

[nostalgia]

Yes, I looked in the book, but thought it possibly was a variation. The soundbox in my last post is not mine, but look similar to my no 23 soundbox. I guess this is a weakness with this soundbox. Below is a photo of my no. 23 soundbox.

[Oedipus]

The number in the casting of these motors is the part number of the casting. Confusingly, the motors were often given the same number, more or less, as the part number of the main chassis casting, but usually not quite the same. The actual motor number, when it is given at all (it often isn't) is stamped on the steel bottom plate. So the number 784 does not necessarily mean that the motor is is a '784'!

[nostalgia]

Thank you, Oedipus, for sharing information about the motor (parts). Knowledge that it would be impossible to find elsewhere.

I am adding a photo of the governor of this black model 87, I completed the service of the machine yesterday. Someone had tried to service it in the past,
the motorboard was misplaced, having caused some of the underlying wood support blocks to fall of, and also the auto stop had been incorrectly reassembled, drilling new holes in the motorboard, which caused the autostop (of course) not to work. I reassembled it, and now it works as it should, and the motorboard is back where it belongs. The speed of the machine also was far too fast.
As expected the governor was also faulty on this model 87, the same problem as on the green model, but not totally as stuck. The governor spring blades were still hardly able to move, so a thorough cleaning was performed.

As shown on the photo, it is possible to open the governor quite easily IF following the procedure shown. 1. Remove the fastening ring from the upper part of the governor (only)using two nose pliers. 2. Remove both blades from their upper position. 3. Remove the worm gear part to clean both the shaft and the gear. 4. Reinstall the fastening ring, and turn it to a position where one of the blades can be reinstalled. 5. Reinstall one of the blades, then turn the fastening ring to close this blade. 6. Reinstall the second (last) blade, and turn the fastening ring to close also this last blade.

This procedure saves a lot of trouble, and is actually a quick fix when performed correctly. After now servicing two different 87 models, I as earlier stated in the above posts, belive strongly this problem has caused too many later HMV portable models with this particular governor spring, to end on the landfill.

(PS. The fastening ring (or lock ring) is shown on the "repaired governor" photo in one of the above posts)

[toh]

The fitting inside the lid is clearly visible on the examples pictured in the His Master's Gramophone book. I suspect that it's purpose is to prevent the tonearm from slipping off it's cheap and nasty looking support bracket whilst the machine is in transit.

The book states that the case is normally black, but that red has been seen, so now green has also been seen. An interesting find.

I'm borrowing this thread if I may. I just repaired a model 87 for someone and I have a question. Also I would like to mention that it is blue so a blue specimen has been seen also. Although this site: http://www.grammofonmuseum.no/Grammofon/HMV/hmv_87.htm has a picture of a blue one so it might not be worth a mention.

Anyway, my question is about the automatic brake. Attached is a picture of the one in this machine. Should there be a spring or something that keeps the moving parts in place when the brake is on? When I close the case and pick it up, the turntable starts to spin because the brake moves out of locking position.