Reattach the spring on a Thorens

[Grammofonstift]

Hello,

I have two travel style grammophones, both got messed up when I tried to clean the spring from old grease.

One of the broke in the center, the little bent part that drives the axle.

The other one got deattached from the casing when I assembled it.

To fix them I need to open the drum they're in, but I can't really figure out how to?

Is it pure violence that is needed?

[soundgen]

please post pictures of the spring barrels , how were you going to clean grease from the springs if you couldn't access them ?

[soundgen]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45675

[Grammofonstift]

My friend has that drum that you posted but mine is different.

[Grammofonstift]

Forgot to mention how I tried to degrease bthe spring: I filled the drum with brake cleaner several times while twisting the spring.
Probably got rid of some of it.

[soundgen]

Forgot to mention how I tried to degrease bthe spring: I filled the drum with brake cleaner several times while twisting the spring.
Probably got rid of some of it.

Probably ?

[soundgen]

My friend has that drum that you posted but mine is different.

Lid knocks off

[nostalgia]

You will unfortunately not be able to clean the spring barrel with brake cleaner by pushing this into the barrel. You will need to open the spring, and as Soudngen says, this particular barrel need its lid to be knocked off. You most probably need to fasten the spring barrel to a workbench, so it can not slip when you remove the lid. The spring and spring barrel is most often full of hardened grease, and you will need fine steel wool and a non abrasive "strong" detergent ( I actually use dishwasher detergent) to clean it, if you are not using kerosene. WD-40 is also handy, I always use it at the final stage of cleaning, before adding new grease to the barrel. Everyone has their preferences on how to clean a spring, but always be careful and not scrape the spring so it gets destroyed.

From your post, I understand it that you have never cleaned a main spring before. Take big precaution if you have no experience with opening a spring barrel, the spring can easily hurt your face and eyes, if you do not remove it in the correct manner. Here is a video showing how to remove the main spring, if you feel this is a thing you can do yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOP_xeP8dyA

I have read your first post a few times, but am not exactly sure if you have opened one of the barrels or not, since you say: "The other one got deattached from the casing when I assembled it."
If one of the springs has broken at it's center, you will also have a hard time fixing it. I had a similar spring last month, and I was unable to bend the remaining part of the spring in the center to create a new hook. It is very difficult to reach this area with a plier, and the spring is extremely difficult to bend in the center(I would say impossible), and also should be heated up to endure the force that is put upon it later on. In my opinion you will need a new spring, but if someone..Soundgen..or someone else, knows better, I am sure he/they will inform you. I have only serviced motors the last year, and the only repair I was able to perform on the center of a spring, was to bend the hook at the end of the spring to better fit the axis, when it was straightened out a bit too much. But even this can be difficult!

[Inigo]

You'd better take out the lid first. It's pressure-fitted, so be patient and careful, proceeding with small kicks around the lid lip until it pops out. Proceed with care, and protect your hands with hard gloves. Better if you can secure firmly the spring can in a vise on a heavy desk. Then extract the spring carefully, grabbing it by the center coils, using both hands, and when you grab it firmly, pull it until the spring starts to unroll. These small Thorens springs are the devil, they are very strong and difficult to manage. Be very careful, and be yourself ready to use a strong grip when it starts to pop out. Proceed slowly retaining the spring coils with both hands, it's intuitive, but be prepared to exert a great force. Let it uncoil slowly, firmly grasped, you must take control of the spring and uncoil it slowly. Don't let the coils unfold by themselves, for it can hurt you. Usually, once you have left the spring uncoil, so it exerts no force, the outer end must be disengaged from a pin in the can side. It has a pear shaped hole engaged on a T-saped pin.
Then clean the spring with a mild oil or soft solvent, using a cotton rag, an old linen cloth or towel. Bbe careful, for some solvents are too hard to the steel, and leave the surface too 'dry' or attacked in some way, and the spring never works well after that. Once its cleaned, but somewhat oily, you may feel the steel soft surface under your fingers. The central coils are more difficult to clean.
Clean also the inner part of the can and the lid.
Maybe the spring is not broken, but only was disengaged from the central arbor. Examine it to see if it has cracks or broken parts.
Our colleague soundgen used to have all types of springs for these motors, in the UK.
Where are you located? Maybe someone near you could help with the work, and new springs if needed.
If you don't feel ready enough to do this, just send the spring barrel of the whole motor to a specialist.
If you feel comfortable with this hard work, then go, but be VERY careful.
You must check that the inner coils are capable of engaging the central arbor. You may find that they need to be reshaped a bit. You must think that this arbor engagement must be done at the end, almost blind, with the spring in the barrel and the lid closed, so force a bit the coils first to be sure it will engage the arbor properly. The arbor also has usually another T-pin to be taken by another pear shaped hole in the inner end of the spring.
To reassemble it in the can, you must proceed just in reverse, but I find this more difficult than extraction. It requires more strength to roll the spring back into the can. You must do that while spreading a good quality spring grease on the spring coils with your finger. You'll find that you need three hands!
Other way is not to grease the coils, but to put grease into the can first, then roll in the spring, and adding some more grease between the coils once the spring is in the barrel. The spring movement will spread the grease to all the coils when it is working.
Before closing the lid, you may need to press the coils in place, down to the bottom of the barrel, in case some coils you see are a bit out of place. Use a soft brass rod or wooden strut, kicking it softly with a hammer all around the coils edges.
Then install the lid again and close firmly the barrel.
During this process be careful not to damage the gear teeth on the barrel big gear.
It's a hard, dangerous and messy work. I find it easier with the big springs, they can be grabbed better. But these small springs... Uuuufffff!

[Grammofonstift]

Thanks for your help guys. I'm in Sweden trying to fix this thing.

I opened one of them tonight.

For some reason I can't attach a photo right now but this spring had disengaged a piece of metal at the centre, a piece that connects to the shaft that goes through the drum.

I thought I had it put back in place, very difficult, but it jumped off when I tried to wind it up.

Regarding the other machine, I only speculate that it got disengaged from the casing based on the noise of rattling springs it made at that time.