HMV 101 problem with crank

[someone_else]

I have an HMV 101 with the crank handle on the side. The problem is that when you wind it up the handle wants to immediately spin back. I'm guessing that there might be a problem with the non-return spring so I wanted to open it up and see if I can figure out what's wrong.

But the first problem is that I can't remove the crank handle (and without doing this you can't take the motor out). I have tried turning it counter-clockwise and everything else that I can think of but something just keeps it locked in place. Does anyone know if there's a trick to this?

[nostalgia]

Welcome to the forum:) The HMV 101 is a good portable, many also think it is the best made portable ever, even if the later HMV 102 portable, possibly has a richer sound because of the newer soundbox. I have myself a very weak spot for the HMV 101, and I have serviced 5-6 of them in the last few months.

If the motorboard screws are in place, and the motor is strongly fastened to the motorboard, you can let the motor unwind, checking the manual brake is off, and allow the motor/turntable to stop. At this stage, you can give the crank a punch with your hand in a counterclockwise direction ( opposite of the winding direction). Sometimes the crank/winding key has fastened quite a bit, due to old grease that has deteriorated and hardened. The grease inside HMV motors are containing graphite, and this grease unfortunately have hardened like asfalt inside the motor, and also often inside the winding shaft.

The winding key/crank is screwed into the winding shaft, so the only way to get it out is by forcing it counter clockwise. A somewhat more or less gentle ( and sometimes not so gentle) push will release it. Last week I was myself giving a rather rough punch to the crank of a HMV 101 myself. When I received the portable the crank was attached to the machine, and I quickly understood the last owner never had released the crank while he had the machine.

When opening the machine, pay attention to the governor spring so that it is not stuck in any way. A released governor spring that has been stuck with grease or in other ways has lost its proper position, easily hurts your fingers very badly. The same goes to the main spring, that can also hurt your eyes and face badly, but you may already be aware of that.

When you remove the motorboard, you should be able to see if the non return spring coil has been tampered with, or if a set screw has loosened, or even more likely, if the shaft is full of hardened old grease that prevents the mechanism from working.

If you upload some photos, it may be easier to recognize the problem. Our forum are full of enthusiasts who are eager to help:)

[someone_else]

Thanks a lot for the information - much appreciated.

The crank moves freely in the counter-clockwise direction and - judging by the feel - I am guessing that it is indeed still connected/stuck to the shaft leading to the main spring. So if I just give it a bit that would just cause it to spin wouldn't it? Shouldn't I first stop it from spinning somehow? Also, wouldn't that risk damaging the other parts of the motor (if they are all still connected together)?

Do you think trying to add some degreaser along the opening of the crank casing might work to loosen it up?

[nostalgia]

I would remove the turntable and the three screws holding the motor to the board.Also remove the automatic stop if needed to be able to remove the wooden motor board. You will then be able to see the motor. Using a plier to hold the spindle and then try release the crank. I am no sure if degreaser would work on the shaft. More likely applied heat will work better, but I have myself not yet needed heat to release the crank on a 101.

[soundgen]

I have an HMV 101 with the crank handle on the side. The problem is that when you wind it up the handle wants to immediately spin back. I'm guessing that there might be a problem with the non-return spring so I wanted to open it up and see if I can figure out what's wrong.

But the first problem is that I can't remove the crank handle (and without doing this you can't take the motor out). I have tried turning it counter-clockwise and everything else that I can think of but something just keeps it locked in place. Does anyone know if there's a trick to this?

the non return spring has broken , you need to replace it although I don't know where you would get one from , i have used all I had and now scavenge other motors for them , you need to remove the motor board screws and motor bolts , you can then see the motor , you will need to dismantle the motor in order to remove the winding handle by "locking " the mechanism and hitting the handle hard to disconnect it

[someone_else]

I finally managed to get the crank out (after meticulously shifting the motor little by little to get at the screws, then taking the side cover and bottom plate off, then finally the main spring casing so that I can get a grip on the worm screw and put enough force on the handle to break it free) and take the motor apart and the non return spring was indeed broken. More specifically the part of it that connects to the screw in the casing had broken so there was no longer anything stopping it from just spinning loosely.

So now I need to find a replacement. There's one on eBay listed as being for the 102 model. It looks the similar, so does anyone know if they are compatible?

[soundgen]

I finally managed to get the crank out (after meticulously shifting the motor little by little to get at the screws, then taking the side cover and bottom plate off, then finally the main spring casing so that I can get a grip on the worm screw and put enough force on the handle to break it free) and take the motor apart and the non return spring was indeed broken. More specifically the part of it that connects to the screw in the casing had broken so there was no longer anything stopping it from just spinning loosely.

So now I need to find a replacement. There's one on eBay listed as being for the 102 model. It looks the similar, so does anyone know if they are compatible?

HMV 101 non return springs are not the same as a 102 spring unless it is a very late 101 with a 270 series motor , if it has a 410 motor or a 59 it won't work , post a picture of the motor so we know what you have it makes life so much easier than trying to be clairvoyant, from your description it is probably a 59

[someone_else]

Mine has a 59 motor.

[nostalgia]

If you have not found a replacement coil spring, I can have a look in my garage room, where I repair my gramophones. I have quite some HMV 101 models, but also most of them are up and running, and removing the coil spring from a working 101 is of course not possible. However, when I reignited my hobby last summer, my first buy was a HMV 101 with a 59 motor( and a Paillard portable), bought cheaply, where I on the forum discovered ( as a novice) that the 101 had been repolstered. Because of this, this particular 101 has later on been used as a donor machine for my later purchases of HMV 101 models. I don't remember here and now if the coil spring is still there, but can check later today when I drive out to the garage.
I am in continental Europe though, so having the coil shipped to UK ( if you are in the UK) will take some extra time due to the virus situation. I ordered some goods from the EBAY UK a few weeks back, and it took more than 2 weeks to arrive in my letterbox.
I will anyway check if the coil is there, I need teach myself to keep control of what I have, and don't have..or at least give it a fair try..

[someone_else]

I haven't yet found one, so if you have one that would be greatly appreciated. I am in Finland, actually, so maybe not that far. But yes, shipping has been taking quite some time recently.