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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:48 am 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
Please also measure from base to end of tonearm as I did on first photo, they seem to be very similarly bent?


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tonearm 6.jpg
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tonearm 4.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:14 am 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Here are the additional measurements


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20200824_131007.jpg
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I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.
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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:32 am 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
To my eyes they look exactly the same, paying particular notice to the angle photo, and the photo of the straightened out tonearm. Your straigthened out tonearm photo is lacking 2 mm at the base end compared to mine, but that is compensated at the soundbox end, where the measurement seems to start 2 mm away from the end (at least it looks that way on the photo).
The autobrake component is added manually, so a few mm difference would be natural, as I see it.

Hmmm.....

I feel like an infidel asking this question, but it becomes rather inevitable, where they made this way?


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:44 am 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Wiltshire, UK
I would say no, firstly because there is no way mine can track a record at the angle the tone arm is at and also mine has cracks at the base at the front and back where you would expect to see something if it had been bent suddenly.

It is useful to know that both tone arms are the same length so at least I feel mine is correct to the machine and not swapped from another.

I think they unfortunately both met the same fate :( Are you going to try bending yours back?
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:51 am 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
I will try to look more closely at this, now also having removed the motor from the cabinet, where I will service it this week ( if I don't meet problems I cant solve, since this is my first Garrard motor).

I find it very strange, yes weird, that two tonearms on the exact same model have been bent in an exactly similar angle. Is there no one else out here, having another 156a, so we can check a third tonearm on this machine? :geek:

I also don't understand how it can be bent without any cracks in the nickel plating.

No, I will not try to bend it back, I have a strong sensation of what will then happen.

Maybe it is another ghost in the (Columbia) machine :lol: :shock:

If they were made this way in error, it would of course have been discovered by the quality control too. Admittedly I have never played with this Columbia, since it has problems both with the springs and the anti return function of the winding handle.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:56 am 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Yes, I thought I had cured the issue with the winding ratchet on mine but the problem re-occured yesterday when I was winding it up fully to test the springs are good. I will obviously need to have a closer look at it and perhaps some adjustment might be required.

Perhaps there is a ghost in this columbia after all ;)
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
I removed this massive triple spring motor from my Columbia 156a yesterday, and today I started to disassemble it. Phonosandradios..when you see my photos, you will probably find the solution to the problems with the anti return function of the winding handle on your machine. I had the same problem on my machine..but look at this mess ! I removed the anti return metal part ( that I dont remember the name on), it is pretty similar to the one found on HMV 32/34 and Victor motors of the same category, but are locked to the gear in a different way, that I will not try explain in words, but it is easily recognizable when one removes it. I spent one hour cleaning the complete area with WD-40, stel wool and steel brush, and lot of rags. Now it runs smoothly.

I have removed one of the tree main springs, they will all be cleaned the next two days. The grease smells and it is abundant, but it is much easier to remove than the HMV grease ( probably no graphite in this grease).

I have some questions, and hope someone can help.

1. The governor area is housed, and when I opened it to check, everything looks good, clean, but there is no oil or grease to be found. Should I still use grease on the worm gear, or is it better to use sewing machine oil also on the gears inside the housed governor? It seems to be very protected area, and no grease from the springs and gears outside the housing is finding its way in. OR, is it best to leave it all alone as it is? The spindle and governor is spinning like a charm really, as it is now.

2. What is the function of the spring close to the worm gear that has some kind of rag inside of it?

Update: I was able to find this information on the gramophophonemuseum. com website about the 7A motor (http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/garrard-columbia.html):

Unique sump for oil. A wick took the oil up into a well around the turntable spindle from where it could trickle along channels to various bearings. All later Garrard motors did not use a sump & wick method but all did use channels. Oiling the main spindle would allow any access or spill oil to trickle along the channels and oil several gears.

My question is still: Do I lubricate the complete governor area/gears inside the housing, with sewing machine oil only ( no grease) ? And, is this administered only from the top of the spindle outside the casing (photo of this area attached)? The question also arises about how much oil should be used...Since the housing not really is completely sealed, there are gaps around the removable lid on the housing, I am tempted to add oil manually to the governor spring itself, since I can't really see how the oil should reach this area if administed through the weck only. Filling up the housing with too much oil also is no solution, since the housing is not sealed.

On the photo one can see a clever system of how the oil is administered to different parts of the motor through a channel system. Fascinating stuff.


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garrard-7A-2.jpg
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Garrard 7A (2).jpg
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Garrard 7A (3).jpg
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Garrard 7A governor.jpg
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Garrard 7A governor (2).jpg
Garrard 7A governor (2).jpg [ 551.78 KiB | Viewed 272 times ]
Garrard 7A.jpg
Garrard 7A.jpg [ 573.59 KiB | Viewed 272 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:03 am 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
I also would like some opinions on the cabinet on the Columbia 156a. It is hard to find photos online, and the few that exist are so small that they don't give a good impression of the wood grain etc.
I understand that the cabinet is made of mahogany, but the different shades on different parts on the cabinet confuses me. I want to strip the cabinet, since it will never be nice with refinishing alone. I have earlier used Liberon wood dye products on HMV/Triumphon/Odeon cabinets, and it has worked out well, but they have all been made of the same wood, and where the woodgrain also was similar all over the cabinet.
Would you say different type of woods than mahogany have been used on the front of this cabinet? I am looking at different Liberon wood dyes, and feel possibly Gregorian Mahogany may be the closest match to use on the lid, but the panels in front seem to have a different shade, and even possibly a different type of wood?
I am not sure how it will look to use Georigan Mahogany all over the cabinet. If no one has any suggestions, I will give it a try, and see what happens.

PS. I have used the Victorian Mahogany on an Odeon cabinet two weeks ago, and it appears more red than on the chart. I upload two Odeon cabinet photos for reference. I was lucky with that color since it matched the cabinet 100%, since I just stripped the lid and one door on that cabinet, in addition to adding Howards Restor-A-Finish to the complete cabinet before waxing it


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Odeon Cabinet 2.jpg
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Odeon cabinet.jpg
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Liberon wood dye color chart.jpg
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Columbia 156a.jpg
Columbia 156a.jpg [ 522.22 KiB | Viewed 249 times ]
Columbia 156a (2).jpg
Columbia 156a (2).jpg [ 635.75 KiB | Viewed 249 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:35 am 
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VTLA
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From the pictures you show I see no reason why anyone would want to strip that cabinet.

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia 156a viva tonal gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:42 am 
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Victor III
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Location: My gramophone repair room
Well, Andreas..with this cabinet keeping the central position in my sitting room, I feel it is not really paying homage to Columbia to keep it this way, compared to its two neigbours in the same small sitting room, my HMV 145 and the Odeon "Stereo". But, if you guys/gals have other suggestions, please feel free to comment and suggest. The cabinet is full of deep scratches, and even water/paint/alcohol damage on top of the lid etc.

Its two neigbours pictured below here, after their recent total overhauls...The HMV 145 was cleaned, refinished, and the top lid was also stripped, due to severe scratches etc. The Odeon was cleaned, refinished, and lid also stripped.


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Lid after stripping.jpg
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HMV 145.jpg
HMV 145.jpg [ 1.45 MiB | Viewed 240 times ]
Odeon Stereo.jpg
Odeon Stereo.jpg [ 657.21 KiB | Viewed 240 times ]
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