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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:26 am 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Work on the horn seems to be progressing well. I did wonder though on looking back at your earlier photo showing the new attached rim - using the red, orange and green sugar paper seemed to do a reasonable job of evening out the wrinkles in their own right. Could you not use one or possibly two coats of the smoothing paint, sand it and then a few layers of paper pasted over to get a smooth and lighter end result?

Which ever way you go the horn is a thing of beauty - with many hundreds of hours of work tied up in it.
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:00 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Hell there "phonosandradios", yes, you seem to be thinking along the same lines as ourselves. If two coats of the stuff are enough, then covering with sugar paper, maybe 2-3 coats might be enough, then painting them. AND would smooth out most blemishes. We have had a look this morning as to how the first coat of the special "filler paint" is drying. It needs at least 24 hours before re-coating in ordinary weather. My wife has made up her mind that leaving it another day may be an advantage, before applying coating no.2. I was thinking of applying, after the filler coats have dried, a couple of coats of sheen finish brown paint, probably a golden or reddish brown to the inside. Frank James, the EMG guru, gave me almost a whole roll of finishing paper in a mid brown grain effect, which is really nice, BUT there looks like only enough to cover the outside of the horn, I asked Frank where he obtained the paper, and I looked online without success. The firm is still going, but there seems to be a much more modern approach to the papers and many stationery items that they sell. I will post on the forum soon, a small piece of the finishing paper for you all to see.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:31 am 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:58 pm
Posts: 25
Location: London UK
An earlier posting on the forum found this source of finishing paper:-

https://theartycraftyplace.co.uk/produc ... ge/papers/

and recommended paper475:-

https://theartycraftyplace.co.uk/home/d ... paper-475/

Attachment:
p-27481-decopatch-475-400x566.jpg
p-27481-decopatch-475-400x566.jpg [ 307.43 KiB | Viewed 250 times ]


There are many more to choose from...


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:32 am 
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Victor IV
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Buyer of broken things
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 1351
Location: North Shields, UK
physicist wrote:
An earlier posting on the forum found this source of finishing paper:-

https://theartycraftyplace.co.uk/produc ... ge/papers/

and recommended paper475:-

https://theartycraftyplace.co.uk/home/d ... paper-475/

Attachment:
The attachment p-27481-decopatch-475-400x566.jpg is no longer available


There are many more to choose from...


I found that to be the best one, I used it here while re-papering the outside of my EMG Xa horn, it is very thin though and slightly translucent , and the paper appeared darker where layers overlap or two layers are applied, I found 3 layers of paper removes this issue, or of the horn is painted a dark brown or black prior to papering then it may blend together better, afterwards I used garnet shellac to finish the paper and add a sheen

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DSC04518.JPG [ 5.88 MiB | Viewed 236 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:21 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
THANK YOU! to "physicist" and to Alex for their suggestions of finishing papers. It seems that you, Alex, have used a very similar paper to the one that "physicist" has posted on the forum, and what a very nice job you have made of it. If I ever make as good a job, then I would be very pleased with myself!
Reading the instructions for the application of the papers and the adhesives used is interesting. I certainly would not want to coat both sides of the paper to produce a gloss finish, as that would be detrimental to the sound. The instructions suggested using torn pieces of paper about one and a half inches square. That would be purgatory indeed, as I have to cover a fairly large area. Looking at the outside of the horn on my Expert Senior, which is a white pained model, I can see long somewhat tri-angular strips of paper that have been applied. It seems that a mathematical calculation can help with working out the size of the long thin tri-angular strips. That way it can benefit, as not too much overlapping is required. I was surprised to read that Alex had to use 2 or 3 coats of the paper, but it was worth it as can be seen in the pictures.
I think I will order some of this paper, the one that "physicist" has kindly shown us, and do some experimenting.
Here is a picture of the papers I have-almost three sheets, about 2 feet by 2ft. 6 inches each.
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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:22 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Attachment:
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SUNP0062.JPG [ 3.56 MiB | Viewed 171 times ]
I have ordered a couple of samples of Decopatch papers, (A4 size) that might be suitable designs for papers to apply to the horn inside. Thanks to "physicist" and Alex who both gave me links to the Decopatch many different designs and colours.
My wife gave the horn it's second coat of special filler paint two days ago, and today in the sunshine, and after the horn had warmed well in the conservatory, she carefully sanded down the "tram lines" which were not bad at all. The horn interior although still a little bumpy inside, is much improved, and with either Decopatch papering, or sheen finish vinyl paint, should look presentable when it comes to that point, but it will be a while yet, as I have to attach the small extra bit of the horn to the rest of it. We decided to drill six small holes in the narrow end of the main horn, and insert split cane all the way round the circumference to add strength, then many coats of sugar paper to cover that, finally merging the two parts of the horn together with more paper.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:44 am 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3583
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Excellent progress Alastair and Jane. Only ten miles apart yet not allowed to meet, I look forward to seeing the project again as soon as restrictions are lifted.

Happy New Year. Let's hope it will be!

Roger.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:03 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Attachment:
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The cold weather does have it's advantages sometimes, as it allows us to stay inside and get on with some work on the "Balmain" type horn.
The small end and the main part of the horn are now blended together. seven holes were drilled down about three inches deep into the narrow end, and canes inserted to provide strength,
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and tapped down into place. their other end was abutted up against the flanged stop, and are held clamped in place at present with a hose clip at both ends. These clips will be removed as time goes on, when layers of sugar paper are applied along the narrow end, and that is the next job for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:34 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Attachment:
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Just finished today papering the horn. It stands 50 inches tall. It is a little wrinkled, but not as bad as me!
I am still not sure whether to cover it if I have enough finishing papers, or to paint it several coats of a sheen finish mid brown inside and out.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:26 am 
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Victor IV
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Buyer of broken things
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 1351
Location: North Shields, UK
That looks excellent, it would best suit having finishing papers added rather than painted in my opinion


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