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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 2565
emgcr wrote:
The only other example of linear tracking I have come across involves a virtually unique and clever prototype HMV/Lumière :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qASnGZzwbZM


BUT they trashed the record didn't they ? And optimally played at 60F room temperature ?


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:20 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:57 am
Posts: 782
Location: Hampshire, England.
Trashed the record ? Not quite sure where that idea came from ? I was lucky enough to be the caretaker of this wonderful machine for a few weeks and played many records. I never noticed a problem or any "swarf" coming from the thorn needle which lasted extremely well. The discs appeared to be unmarked.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:36 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
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Hello all, Here are a couple of pictures of what has been happening to the mouth of the horn, and to the narrow end, The multi-coloured fibrous papers I used on the horn mouth, six layers was all I could get cheaply, and of the right thickness. the horn can bee seen sitting in it's cradle (!) made by my wife-she is great a problem solving!
The other pictures show the wooden exponential small part of the horn, along with the fitted aluminium end part where the soundbox goes, most of the aluminium part will be covered in papers These last parts were made by another problem solving person-Mr Adrian Tuddenham, of the town of Bath. He is an expert acoustics engineer, and a damn clever chap indeed! I have known him since the 1970s. He is probably one of the cleverest and kindest people that I have had the pleasure of knowing. He is also a long time collector of gramphone records, and produces cylinder blanks and records to order. He has done a lot of work in past years for the "National Sound Archives"


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:46 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1252
Location: Luxembourg
It's taking shape quickly, Alastair! Great work!


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:58 am 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Wiltshire, UK
old country chemist wrote:
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Hello all, Here are a couple of pictures of what has been happening to the mouth of the horn, and to the narrow end, The multi-coloured fibrous papers I used on the horn mouth, six layers was all I could get cheaply, and of the right thickness. the horn can bee seen sitting in it's cradle "


That has certainly produced a nice even edge at the end of the horn. Can you update us with how the smoothing process goes for the wrinkley inside of the horn. Are you still proposing to use a filler?
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Good to hear from you Carlos and phonosandradios, Yes I am going to have to fill the crevices with some sort of filler, but I do not want to make the horn unduly heavy, so My wife has sourced a product called Polycel Smoothover. It says that you apply it, and smooth it before it hardens. A special brush is used. It seems it can be carefully sanded when dry, but in the references made to it by past users of this product, some said it sagged too much,( it is usually applied to walls, etc.), and some said it was good to use, but expensive! We are still looking into an alternative, something that will fill the craters, and not add any real extra weight, and be cheap!


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:36 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 5146
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Alastair, I have used a product known as "lightweight wall spackling" in the past, with good success as a filler. I'm not sure what is available in the UK, but if you do a GOOGLE search for that product, you might come up with a local source. It is normally used to fill holes in walls of all types and is very light. It is easily sanded and can be painted with no problems.

Hope this helps and good luck... Your project seems to be advancing with no other problems.

Curt
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:21 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
Hi Curt. Thank you very much for the information. I have located the brand "Rd Devil" ONETIME LIGHTWEIGHT SPACKLING. Most of the advertisements came from your side of the pond!-but I see that "Amazon" has it listed in One quart size. Of course that is an American quart,(about 950mls). A quart in Britain is two pints,(1,200mls.) I remember well in the early days of my work, we had to make some gun blueing liquid for a local gunsmith, and the formula was an American armaments one from the 1860s, and we had to transpose all the quantities as they were in the American fluid equivalents to the British ounces and pints!
Thanks again Curt-most kind of you. If I knew what was in the product, and if I could get the necessary ingredients, I would probably make it myself, but there is probably no way of finding out.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:43 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 5146
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
If it needs to be flexible, I don't know if this will withstand any movement, but if it is stationary this works well. There are some other things like Bondo, but it weighs more.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER HORN "BALMAIN"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:34 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 179
My wife is now seen applying the special "filler paint" to the imperfections in the horn I have made, (expensive stuff at 26 quid a tub!). She has applied one coat so far, which took her nearly three quarters of an hour to apply, and as the weather is damp at present, that might help with a slower rate of drying, then a sanding of the surface to remove "tram lines", and wiping dry before a second coat is applied using her trusty flexi-spatula, amongst other tools that she has utilised for the job!
We will make an assessment after the second coat has dried and been sanded as to whether a third thin coat may be needed, but the horn must not become too heavy, otherwise it will be crashing through the supports on the carrying equipment-or giving me a hernia in lifting it!


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