The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:50 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:49 am 
Offline
Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 700
Location: My gramophone repair room
I have used the HMG book, trying to identify this nice horn gramophone that is up for sale. With this reference as a look up, I believe the machine is made close to 1904, because of the Angel Plaque, and also because of the Pivot Brake, found on the machine?
I however don't recognize the winding handle from the handles shown in the same book. It is a good looking machine, so I thought it could be both interesting and something to learn from trying to identify it.
Since the model is not listed in the HMG book ( as far as I understand it), would you say it is a machine made in Europe/Germany?
The photos are well taken, and the machine seems to be in good shape too. We also spot the Exhibition Junior soundbox on the machine...


Attachments:
1.jpg
1.jpg [ 305.99 KiB | Viewed 476 times ]
2.jpg
2.jpg [ 308.33 KiB | Viewed 476 times ]
3.jpg
3.jpg [ 301.05 KiB | Viewed 476 times ]
4.jpg
4.jpg [ 303.61 KiB | Viewed 476 times ]
5.jpg
5.jpg [ 365.46 KiB | Viewed 476 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:18 am 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 1001
Location: Madrid, Spain
Serial numbers, or any stamps or marks on the case, maybe expedition labels... Would help a lot! Of course it doesn't look as any of the British models, so it could be European, or Russian... Who knows. I can tell you that it seems not a Spanish model (as per the 1910 Gramophone catalogue).
Inigo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:47 am 
Offline
Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3424
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
I suspect that the machine has been restored (it looks almost too shiny to be original) and that any identifying transfer on the case has been lost.

If the soundbox fitted is an HMV Exhibition Junior, it is unlikely to be original to the machine. Further reading of "His Master's Gramophone" (Appendix 6) tells us that the Exhibition Junior was only used on a few HMV models from 1910 to 1916, by which time the Witch's Hat horn was obsolete. It's main use was on Zonophones, when it was badged as the Zonophone Detachable soundbox.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:34 pm 
Offline
Victor II
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:51 am
Posts: 491
Never seen that extra piece of wood between cabinet & Horn bracket on a Gramophone Company machine?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:56 pm 
Offline
Victor IV
User avatar
Keep'em well oiled
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:51 am
Posts: 1001
Location: Madrid, Spain
Maybe it's a composed machine, made as a humpback because the tonearm support belongs to a larger machine!
Inigo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:19 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:00 pm
Posts: 22
Incase you have a look at the bottom of the cabinet, you will most likely find DGAG and number pressed into the wood and if so, it's a German gramophone from the Deutsche Gramophone AktiengesellschafT company.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:07 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 700
Location: My gramophone repair room
Thank you for interesting observations. Unfortunetely I do not have access to the machine, I only have the photos that is uploaded, so I can not check for stamps or numbers. I have tried to contact the seller to ask for some information on numbers etc, but he has not replied, at least not yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:35 am 
Offline
Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 700
Location: My gramophone repair room
I have received some additional photos. As we can see the soundbox is named "Junior Lyddaase", ( "lyddaase" is the old way of spelling "soundbox" in Danish), and is a Scandinavian made by Skandinavian Grammophon A/S in Copenhagen( or maybe more realistic manufactured in Germany for sale in Scandinavia?). I also received a photo of the bottom of the cabinet, and the extra wood piece behind the horn bracket. There are also some letter stamped into the wood, but they are somewhat hard to read, even if the two first letters could maybe be identified as DG ? (Actually, the more I look at these letter, the more I think the letters are DGAG, or maybe it is just wishful thinking.. :? )

Found online about "Skandinavian Grammophon A/S: In 1903, The Gramophone Co. established a Danish branch with an early address at Amagertorv 17 in Copenhagen. There had been a recording visit to Denmark in late 1899, but the Gramophone Co. forgot to set up a branch or agency, so very little happened until 1903. The Danish branch Skandinavisk Grammophon A/S became the largest player on the market, even if several others tried to establish themselves. In 1905 the Danish branch was allocated the responsibility for the three Scandinavian countries and moved to the Copenhagen Free Port. In 1907 Finland was cut out of the Russian branch and moved to the Scandinavian branch as well.
(Direct link to word doc: http://www.phonomuseum.at/wp-content/up ... C3%B6m.doc

This last information makes be believe this is a genuine machine, restored or not, do you agree?


Attachments:
DGAG..or not....jpg
DGAG..or not....jpg [ 41.8 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]
6.jpg
6.jpg [ 477.3 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]
7.jpg
7.jpg [ 268.54 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]
8.jpg
8.jpg [ 835.4 KiB | Viewed 276 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:38 pm 
Offline
Victor VI
User avatar
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 am
Posts: 3538
Location: Where there's "hamburger ALL OVER the highway"...
Definitely looks like "D.G.A.G." on the bottom.

I'm not exactly certain; but the "humpback" block looks a little "off" to me... :geek:

- Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Gramophone Company, horn model identification
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:53 am 
Offline
Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 700
Location: My gramophone repair room
I forgot to write that the seller, as an avid and long time collector, could not confirm that the horn was genuine to the machine, and even suggested it could have been substituted years back in time, before he bought the machine.
So yes, Lucius1958, ( and many others with you), I guess there is a good chance that the wood block behind the horn bracket was added at that time too. :geek:
The minimum price for the machine is € 350, and it is not a machine I intend to buy, even if it is interesting trying to nail its origin and also see its soundbox and stamp numbers/letters in detail.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Content © 2009-2020 by The Talking Machine Forum and the respective posters.
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.