Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
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poodling around
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by poodling around »

nostalgia wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:30 am What do you think about this Pathéphone. Is it all genuine, apart from the Peter Pan soundbox?
I prefer this as it is. A really great looking gramophone.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I return to the Crown horn machine, detailed in a few posts above here. I collected it yesterday, but there are absolutely no marks on it telling its origin. Do you still think this is an original Crown? The horn is as thin as horns on crapophones, even if it shines. The machine has as double spring motor, and it seems to be original to the machine. I upload some more photos, so you can have a look, if someone has some comments, please bring them on.
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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I took pity on this small horn gramophone yesterday, it came along with 8 early vertically cut Pathé discs. Unfortunately the Pathé soundbox is beyond repair, but the small motor seems to run, so I think I will be able to get the machine up and running. It also has some cabinet corner challenges, but for a mere 80 euros I dit not want it to go. I don't know if the horn is original, it is the typical peacock horn, but the size of the horn fits the machine.
Does someone recognize the back bracket style or any other parts?
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Inigo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Inigo »

It looks very nice! I wish you luck with the work!
For finding a new soundbox or the parts you need, you may try ebay.fr or other French sites googling phonographe, gramophone or Pathéphone.
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

I agree that the horn on your Crown machine has something of the Crapophone about it. It would originally have had a bought in Swiss made painted metal horn, with a transfer which read "Made in British Malaya and Singapore". I don't know what the original soundbox would have been, but yours looks like a Columbia No.9, although I cannot see the Columbia name on the backplate.

If you are considering the purchase of a Pathé reproducer to replace your damaged one, ensure that the ball sapphire stylus is present and unworn. Genuine replacements are expensive, and cheap ones using glass instead of sapphire are useless.

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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by gramophoneshane »

I don't think the Pathé soundbox is original to the machine, but I could be wrong.
I can only remember seeing that back bracket once before a long time ago, and I think it was either on a Paillard machine or Paillard catalogue someone posted?
Again I could be wrong though as it was probably more than a decade ago when I saw it.
That said, I'd expect the motor to be stamped if it was a Paillard machine, but to me the motor looks German.
Whatever it is, I don't think it's a Franke phone, and I think it probably should have a lateral soundbox.

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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Curt A »

The Pathé reproducer is definitely wrong for this machine. It is designed to face forward, not sideways, as the angle of the needle (assuming that the needle bar was replaced) is not correct to play in this orientation.
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by JerryVan »

Curt A wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:23 am The Pathé reproducer is definitely wrong for this machine. It is designed to face forward, not sideways, as the angle of the needle (assuming that the needle bar was replaced) is not correct to play in this orientation.
Totally agree with Curt.

As to the Crown machine. Not only does the reproducer look to be from a Columbia, but the speed control does as well. My guess is that the motor & reproducer are from a Columbia, or Columbia knock-off, and that the back bracket & tone arm are from some other, unkown machine. The spacer between the arm and cabinet would likely not be an original design. The cabinet & horn appear to be of recent manufacture. I don't believe that style and design of motor would have been used in the "outside horn machine" era.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Thanks everyone for adding comments and views on both the "Crown" looking machine and the latest one with the Pathé soundbox.

Yes, I have already decided that the "Crown" looking machine will be sold, after checking the motor, and the tonearm, that is needing cleaning and greasing to allow the tonearm to follow the tracking of a record when playing. It is not a machine I feel I want to keep, even if it is really shiny and good looking.

Regarding the small machine with the Pathé soundbox, I also felt the soundbox was not original to the machine, and I will add a lateral soundbox to the machine when repairing it. The seller told me her parents have owned the machine for at least 60 years, and she also talked about needles that was kept somewhere, but now lost, and the machine probably have had two different soundboxes, since also 15 lateral cut records followed the machine, in addition to the early vertically cut Pathé discs. I also feel that this machine is genuine, nothing franken about it really, so it will be restored too.

And yes, Shane...the motor also looks German/ Swiss to my eyes.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Just adding some photos after restoration of this small horn gramophone. It has received two new corner pillars, I was happy to find a matching color, after finding the correct size of the wooden corner pillars.
The main spring was not broken, but the spring hook had fallen off, so a new hook was peened into the side of the spring container, before reinstalling and greasing/oling the motor parts and spring. Apart from it, there was no problems with the small motor.
The cabinet was cleansed with Swarfega, before adding three layers of Shellack politure ( liquid shellack solutiion), before waxing the cabinet and horn, and adding a new felt to the turntable, and of course,...polishing the metal parts.

Appropriate lateral soundbox has also been added to the gramophone after the photos was taken.
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