Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

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epigramophone
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

I suspect that both the motor and the soundbox are of later date than the machine.
The Garrard No.20 motor is normally found in portables from the late 1920's to the end of acoustic gramophone production. I have never seen one fitted as original equipment in an external horn machine.
Unless it is not fully engaged, the winding handle is too long to be original to the machine. Even though the winding hole may line up, there may be evidence of a replacement motor in the form of redundant holes in the motor board.
The soundbox was probably replaced to enable the machine to play electrical recordings better than the original. Such replacements were commonly done to extend the useful life of an old gramophone, especially in the Depression years when money was tight.
The gooseneck appears to have been been fitted on the wrong side of the tonearm.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you Roger, for your valuable input. I bought the machine cheaply, mainly because of the horn, that I like. I will however not pick it up before next year's spring, because the machine is situated across some high mountains, and also pretty far away from me, a place I don't really want to travel during the winter. We will see next year if there are evidence of redundant holes from a previous motor etc.

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Marco Gilardetti
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

I ignore if anyone else is still interested in the matter, however I was a bit puzzled by the comments about Paris Green written in August (Paris Green was widely used as an anti-malarial insecticide in Italy) and looked for further readings.

This is one of the rare cases in which the Italian entry on Wikipedia is way better and with a much richer bibliography than its English counterpart. Making a long story short, what caused problems were wallpapers coloured with Paris Green, as when the paper layer happened to be attacked by molds, the arsenic could be released in air. On the other hand, colours used by painters, and paintings themselves, are not reported as having caused poisoning, unless the colour was eaten or licked.

Even the discussed death of Napoleon at St. Elena is reported as having possibly been caused by wallpaper, not by "painted walls" as I had heard many times previously.

I then believe you can live happy side by side with your green horn - assuming it is Paris Green, which remains to be proven.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verde_di_Parigi

An interesting spinoff is that at a point in time a book was made in the US in which samples of poisonous wallpapers were collected. Few of these still survive in libraries, and one has been scanned and those elegant wallpapers of yesteryear can be browsed...

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_f ... s_of_Death
https://archive.org/details/0234555.nlm ... v/mode/2up

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Last edited by Marco Gilardetti on Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Thanks for posting Marco, interesting reading !

I am posting some new photos of the horn gramophone that I bought about one month ago. It had issues with the motor board, and I have been able to straighten out the motor board, by using a warm clothing iron, and a wet towel, on the inner side. It only took a few minutes to straighten out, and I then clamped the motor board for 3 hours as well as drying it with a hair dryer for some minutes after the procedure. I thought it could be interesting to see some before and after photos, so I also re upload some photos of how it looked when I bought it.
The two lower photos show the motor board before I used the clothing iron

The Steidinger double spring motor runs noiselessly, it is one of the most quiet running motor I have seen in an external horn gramophone. I did not need to do much with it, really. I think it has been serviced one time during the last decades, since the grease in the motor was very soft. I just added some grease to the gears and some oil to other parts.

We can see there is a different "problem" though, I did not pay attention to this, before cleaning, adding Howard's Restor A Finish, and waxing the cabinet today. I will however keep it as it is for now, even if I can't use the machine, until the correct part turns up sooner or later...
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Marco Gilardetti
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

Nice work, this is the first time that I see anyone straightening wood with the heat/water technique for real, and not just mere theory.

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drh
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by drh »

Marco Gilardetti wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:18 am ...An interesting spinoff is that at a point in time a book was made in the US in which samples of poisonous wallpapers were collected. Few of these still survive in libraries, and one has been scanned and those elegant wallpapers of yesteryear can be browsed...

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadows_f ... s_of_Death
https://archive.org/details/0234555.nlm ... v/mode/2up

Image
Thank you for posting that! Many of the samples are indeed elegant, a window into how homes looked in the Victorian era. (This from someone who generally dislikes wallpaper.) Also, the introductory essay was a fine example of good writing, clear, informative, and compelling to this day. A most interesting volume. Given that all the samples in it are products laced with arsenic that was not well bound when they were new 150 years ago, I wonder if those libraries still housing the volumes hold them in some sort of special segregation?

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Marco Gilardetti
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Marco Gilardetti »

Yes indeed. Even when these books were new, they could be consulted only wearing special gloves and with specific time limits. Later, all 100 books excepting 4 were destroyed for safety reasons. Of these, three are kept in special sections of the respective libraries, one has pages that were plastified in 1998 and can be browsed.

I fully second your comments: while I also dislike wallpapers in general, most of the designs in the sampler are lovely, and I'd really like to have a "gramophone room" wallpapered with one of those. :clover: Browsing through the samples feels like being immersed in a silent movie film.

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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Another entry, since the Excelsior machines are not that common, as I know it.
On top of the photo listing, I uploaded two photos of how it looked when I got it, and the rest is how it looks now, I also link to a video of it playing today.

It has an original blue Excelsior soundbox. I still have no experience with servicing soundboxes, this is something I have always postponed, since I have quite
a few that is working well already. This one needs a new rubber gasket as we can see, but it still plays well, and I am very hesitant to start working on it, also because I don't know how to open it? I will most probably leave it as it is for now.

I need open the spring container though, it has a single spring, at first I thought it was okay, but some minor bumps are heard sometimes during playing,
even if it is not present on the youtube video.

I need make a decision, to keep it ir not. One has to go, either this Excelsior machine, or a German (DGAG) built HMV Intemediate Monarch. I can't make up my mind though,,,

The Excelsior playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqLm79gjHmk
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epigramophone
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

That soundbox certainly needs new gaskets. The front gasket is breaking up and will eventually fall out in pieces.
If there are no screws on the back of the soundbox it is designed to allow gasket replacement from the front.
There must be plenty of advice on rebuilding soundboxes here, but if you are not confident, practice on a scrap one.
New gasket tubing is readily available, but check the diameter of the old gaskets before ordering.
Hopefully what looks like damage on the diaphragm is just a reflection from using flash photography.

Roger.

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Inigo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Inigo »

The centre of the mica looks badly stressed or kicked. A new mica and soft gaskets will do marvels on that machine.
I must confess I suffer with that tonearm, so short that it has a bad tracking.... Maybe the horn support was too large for this tonearm;, if it would have been shorter, the tracking would be much better. Anyway, it is a nice and fascinating gramophone... One more of the jewels you use to find there around you. You live in gramophone dreamland! :mrgreen: :D
Inigo

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