Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
nostalgia
Victor IV
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Jamie, thanks for responding on the screw fitting, and its genuinity.

Curt, thanks for warning about the dangerous fumes of the green arsenic paint. I yesterday repainted the green Pathé horn using this red car paint. I for sure don't want to die from breathing in arsenic fumes in my house.
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jamiegramo
Victor III
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by jamiegramo »

Oh dear. I think the paint would now be quite inert, in terms of fumes, after so long a time and only present a problem if repeatedly licked. If you were worried about any exposure you could have sealed it with clear wax. Nickel is also poisonous but you wouldn’t paint over the nickel plated parts of your machine, you just wouldn’t suck on them. So please don’t worry.

I doubt collectors of antique tinplate toys, advertising signs, toleware, textiles, chromolithographs etc. would be concerned about this. Not to mention the arsenic, cadmium, lead, nickel etc. found in the glazes of antique china and pottery.

Ah... and your best whisky in the lead crystal decanter, silver finishes containing mercury and uranium glass objects.

nostalgia
Victor IV
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I guess I have to admit before bedtime that this was a prank on Curt,;)

Curt, I have NOT repainted the horn in red, despite your horror stories :lol:

Here is the gramophone, with its arsenic green horn..next to my bed. :roll:
However,.,,,however...I will follow your advice, Jamie..and wax it, I already actually had decided to do that, when reading Curt's post about arsenic,
and since I always wax my horns after cleaning them anyway, I see no reason to skip or delay waxing this horn.
The gramophone will be moved into my sitting room in a day or two, the area around the elbow is now fixed with plastic padding. It is not perfect, but it works.

PS. Sorry you were drawn into this arsenic green horror story too, Jamie ;)
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jamiegramo
Victor III
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by jamiegramo »

Oh my gosh! Despite briefly wondering if it was a prank, I felt that the photo of the can of red paint was convincing.

I am very pleased that you kept that lovely 2 tone green original finish which has survived exceptionally well on the inside.

Jamie

nostalgia
Victor IV
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I bought this machine two days ago, since the price was good, and I also would like to possibly save it from "oblivion". These are all the photos I have so far.
Excelsior....could it be Excelsior Werke Cologne, but I understand the Excelsior name also was used by providers of gramophones. I was able to find this information from a past thread:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=48629&p=288186&hil ... or#p288186
by epigramophone » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:37 am
Tournaphone was one of several brand names applied to gramophones supplied by The J.G. Murdoch Company of 59-61 Clerkenwell Road, London E.C.1, one of the largest firms in the trade. Other Murdoch brands included Beltona and Excelsior.


I don't know if someone instantly is recognizing this machine...
The elbow is broken as we can see, maybe also bigger parts of the back bracket, I find it a bit hard to decide from the received photos. I will upload more photos when I collect it at the end of next week when being able to also check the motor.

Whateter state it is in, there is still a horn, cabinet, soundbox, and a winding handle...
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Oedipus
Victor I
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Oedipus »

Yes, Murdochs were Excelsior agents, so the name was not just a Murdoch brand. I've never seen an elbow split like that before, but it should be repairable by someone with more skills than I have!

epigramophone
Victor Monarch
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

Here is an Excelsior which I have since sold (I cannot keep them all) and which also had a cast alloy elbow :
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Inigo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Inigo »

Nostalgia, good purchase! It looks as to be going to clean easily and beautifully. The wood pattern painted horn seems to be repairable in the spotted areas, but the split elbow seems to have taken part of the horn throat... A delicate but rewarding work is awaiting you!
The tonearm seems to have detachable parts, as if it was possible to fit an interchangeable part for playing Pathé records... The adjustable ring at the end looks as if adjustable too, so you can use different soundboxes...
very nice!
Inigo

nostalgia
Victor IV
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you for all feedback on this machine, and thank you too Roger for uploading a photo of your "Ex Excelsior" machine.
I have today collected the machine, and upload some photos so you can have a look. The elbow has split, but there are no further damage to the horn. The elbow must have been glued to the horn in the past, and rust around the connection to the bracket have disallowed the horn to be moved sideways, and adding too much force have broken the elbow. I don't have any spare elbows of this size, so when looking at the elbow, I feel the best solution will be to remove all the rust, before gluing the elbow, and if necessary add some epoxy at some minor areas. If someone have better ideas of repairing the elbow, then of course please state your opinion...

The motor is an original Excelsior Werke motor, I recognize it from another Excelsior machine showed in this thread:viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41477&p=246460&hil ... or#p246460

I add many detailed photos, for reference, since Excelsior machines are not that often shown on the forum.
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epigramophone
Victor Monarch
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

Here is my "Mead" gramophone, which I purchased a few days ago at the CLPGS Malvern weekend.
Although the horn needs work I was attracted by the unusually elegant lines of the mahogany case.
Yet another machine for which, if I am honest, I have no use and no room.

No I don't know why Picture 1 has been reproduced sideways. It's the right way up in my photo gallery.

Information on Mead is proving hard to find. All I have seen on line is a theory that Mead gramophones were sold by the Mead and Fields department store in Birmingham. The case transfer shows an address in Balsall Heath, now an inner city area of Birminham. I have contacted the Balsall Heath Local History Society for help, but if any of you knows anything about Mead you know what to do.
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