Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

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Dangermouse
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Dangermouse »

The motor in the gramophone with the repainted horn, is the same as the original one fitted to my Stradivari German machine..
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SteveM
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by SteveM »

epigramophone wrote:
gramophoneshane wrote:Thanks for that information and picture.
To be honest, I never knew Columbia was still offering horn gramophones so late in the game. I'd actually forgotten all about Columbia using Garrard motors, although the limited amount of Columbia's I've had experience with were all stamped as Columbia motors by Garrard, but I guess by this late in the game they no longer bothered.
It still retains the classic Columbia shape knob on the crank though I see.

Can I ask what reproducer and type of tonearm was used on these late Columbia horn machines?
Did they stick to the one piece tonearm similar to what you find on the earlier BI type machines throughout production of horn machines over the years?

I can't imagine they sold very well when their only real competition would have been the HMV Model 32.
The Model 2a was Columbia's last external horn machine. It had the Plano-Reflex tonearm and the No.9 soundbox as pictured.

I took pity on a beginner who had been deceived by a Crapophone and wanted the real thing, so I sold it to him. I have never seen another. It still lives only five miles from me, and if the new owner ever decides to sell it I want it back!
The 2a is still the one machine on my wish list. Viva Tonal, horn, single spring, and just small enough to not draw too much attention to itself when I sneak it in! I haven’t been around for a few weeks, and popped on here JUST to see if anyone was discussing the 2a! VERY unlikely to meet up with one here in the states, but stranger things have happened.
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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I am adding another horn gramophone that is up for sale to this thread. To me it looks like a genuine DGAG machine, possibly from around 1904/05, taking into consideration the visible Angel Plaque, and the Pivot brake (Ref: HMG book)(?)
What puzzles me most however is the metal part close to the back bracket, does anyone recognize this part and what purpose it has? I already have a very similar DGAG machine with a Cannon brake, but this metal part is non existent on my machine. (The winding handle seems to be missing on the machine). As we can see the Exhibition soundbox also has been exchanged with a HMV no 4 soundbox ( I believe, even if we can't see the back side of the soundbox).
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epigramophone
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

Many machines of this period were converted from travelling arm to tonearm. The part you have highlighted may have located the bracket which once supported the travelling arm.

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alang
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by alang »

I believe this part was used to install a crane to support larger horns. I have never seen one installed though. I believe this was very short lived in the very beginning of rear mount machines with tapering arm. Maybe a precaution after the horn elbows of rigid arm machines were prone to drooping?

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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by gramophone-georg »

Could it be for storing the winding crank? This has appeared on a few Victors over on this side of the pond as well.
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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I could not resist buying this horn gramophone today, since the price was good. Nothing spectacular maybe, but since the motor does not wind according to the seller, it may be a project for the upcoming spring, before the gramophone is passed on to someone else, most probably. I also love the idea of repairing it and make it shine again.
Does someone recognize the soundbox or horn? I don't have more photos at the time of writing, and will not collect the gramophone for another week or two. The letters "DGG", are found on the soundbox, this makes me think of Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft...or?
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epigramophone
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

The soundbox bears some resemblance to the HMV No.2. I suspect that it may be a copy rather than by Deutsche Grammophon.
There were some shameless copies of the Exhibition soundbox made in Europe with names such as "Exposition".

The horn is of typical Swiss/German pattern.
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nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

Instead of opening a new thread in the tips and tricks section I continue here, since it is concerning the last pictured horn gramophone.
The motor inside the machine turned out to be a very old Lindstrom motor, and since it looks original machine, the machine then is a Lindstrom gramophone.
I have a question concerning the non return spring that appears to be broken in half, at least that is what comes to my mind. I doubt it was fastened to the screw in the mid section, or what do you think? Broken, or made this way? I am hesitant to try fastening it to the screw as it appears now, or if I need look for a new spring....

I upload two more photos of the soundbox, that is very well made, and reminds me much of the quality of the HMV Exhibition,( and also probably the HMV No 2, even if I yet have never seen one of those for real). I have never seen such a solid soundbox on any of the early Lindstrom gramophones that have come my way to date. If they have manufactured the soundbox themselves, I am not able to say anything about....By the way, thank you Roger for uploading the photo of the HMV No 2 soundbox.
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Inigo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Inigo »

The winding crank retaining screws I've seen have been in Thorens style motors, and they invariably have a straight extension at one end, of enough length, with a final loop that goes engaged by a screw. HMV101 also used this system, and maybe the 102 too (don't remember it right now).
The spring is placed so its coils are forced to widen when you wind up the crank, and the opposite, they press the winding axis, when you release the crank and it's the main spring who tries to unwind, turning the winding axis in the opposite direction. The friction of the axis on the spring coils is then in the opposite direction, so it tries to reduce the diameter of the spring, the coils press against the axis and increase the friction, preventing the main spring from unwinding by this side, all its power going to move the spindle and governor gearing.
Your example looks like the spring was broken, and someone simply mounted the pieces on the arbor for posterity, so they don't get lost. It seems that the whole spring length could fit in the arbor between the pinion and the set screw... with the extension and fixing loop at one end. The broken protrusion doesn't look as the fixing extensions I've seen, it is curved, and the others are straight. It more looks like an inner coil of the spring that someone tried to extend to form a new extension to attach to the screw, but he left it unfinished... Could be?
Inigo

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