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 Post subject: Re: HMV Model VIa Table Grand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 731
Location: My gramophone repair room
I was able to get the winding handle out and have removed the motor, before I will be cleaning and servicing it later in the week. I took some photos of the motor and the wooden horn, for those who would like to see what it looks like inside this early table grand.

After once more checking with the HMG book, I understand it as this Model VIa with its wooden horn, manufactured between 1912-14, also differs from its "sister model" 6 (TBBO)/6B, made from March 1915 - June 1922, (that instead of a wooden horn), has a cast iron internal horn.


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Wooden horn.jpg
Wooden horn.jpg [ 360.59 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
Double 1 inch spring motor (1).jpg
Double 1 inch spring motor (1).jpg [ 321.88 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
Double 1 inch spring motor (2).jpg
Double 1 inch spring motor (2).jpg [ 266.37 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: HMV Model VIa Table Grand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Victor II
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So many audio formats, so little listening time!
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Posts: 295
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Interestingly although mine is a later model it still has the open wooden horn inside. I guess there was a lot of crossover between different models as left over parts were used up.
I am interested in all forms of audio media including: gramophones, phonographs, wire recorders, the tefifon, reel to reel tapes, radiograms and radios.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV Model VIa Table Grand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 731
Location: My gramophone repair room
If your machine also has an open wooden horn inside, and as seen on your photos also has a six piece louvred horn mouth, I starting to ask myself if your machine can be a model 6 (TBO) manufactured between September 1913-March 1915, according to the HMG book. This machine is only shown on a drawing in the book, and the inside of the machine is not exposed. It is however stated to have a 10 inch turntable, while the VIa, has a 12 inch turntable, and the cabinet is also slightly smaller than my machine.
If you are able to measure the turntable at some stage on your machine, this could reveal if it is this model or not. If I turns out not to be this model (6 TBO), I am myself not able to nail it by using the book, and a possible crossover machine quickly comes to mind ( as you also already have suggested yourself). (If the book can not help us, I guess maybe the only member in here that possibly could help to nail the machine, is Oedipus, if he ever reads this thread....)


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 Post subject: Re: HMV Model VIa Table Grand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:48 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 am
Posts: 135
This machine is a Model VIA (or 6A), otherwise known as TCO (D.U. is the same thing, but that style of code was used only for about a year in 1912-13). Apart form its larger size, the TCO is distinguished from the TBO by the beading on the upper part of the case. The model was on the U.K. market from September 1912 to November 1915.

The Gramophone Co. used USA-made Exhibition sound boxes until some time in 1918.

The Dennison brake was in general use around 1913-14, but is sometimes found later, as late as 1920.

The six louvres and the forward position of the winder are both indicators of the 'motor-in-horn' arrangement.

It is quite normal for oak cabinets of this era to darken on the outside but not the interior.

The three-piece winder appears to have been used on the TBO initially, but not on the TCO.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV Model VIa Table Grand
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:22 pm 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 731
Location: My gramophone repair room
Oedipus, can you please identify the HMV Table Grand on this link that Phonosandradios gave in an earlier post in this thread (it is his machine): viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1521

This thread started with presenting photos of my VIa table grand, but the question that arised in the few latest posts are if the machine is a Model 6B, as it was identified as back in 2009. From my perspective, it however looks different than the Model 6B in the book, but more similar to the Model 6 (T.B.O) in the HMG book. ( But I can of course be wrong).

It has many similarities with my own Model VIa, that started this thread, but it also has some differences, most obvious it has a 10 inch turntable, needle container and motor board screws, while my VIa has as 12 inch turntable, and no needle container and no motor board screws.
When visiting the link we can also see this machine has a later Exhibition sounddbox than my Model VIa.

It could be interesting to identify the machine on that link, to be able to separate this early table grands in the future.

Thank you.


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