Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

[jboger]

A tangential question, so one not specifically about this machine. The motor, which is not original to this machine, is very similar to early US Victor motors down to at least one of the governor weights; the other two I believe were replaced. Are at least some parts interchangeable between US Victor and UK HMV, the spindle, for example, or the entire mainspring barrel, arbor and all?

The US watch company, Waltham, manufactured movements in Massachusetts then exported them to the UK. These were often cased in UK-made and UK-assayed sterling cases. In light of that, where were HMV motors manufactured? Were they manufactured in the US then fitted to cabinets made abroad? I could imagine various scenarios.

John

[GramophoneSmith]

Hi. Here are the photos of the horn as requested. Hope this helps.

[nostalgia]

Thank you so much for uploading photos of the horn. Now we can see the original horn that is in your machine, and as also earlier remarked from knowledgeable forum members, we can see that the horn inside my GEM, is not original.

[GramophoneSmith]

Thank you so much for uploading photos of the horn. Now we can see the original horn that is in your machine, and as also earlier remarked from knowledgeable forum members, we can see that the horn inside my GEM, is not original.

You are very welcome.

[Oedipus]

"Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet
Post by jboger » Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:41 pm

A tangential question, so one not specifically about this machine. The motor, which is not original to this machine, is very similar to early US Victor motors down to at least one of the governor weights; the other two I believe were replaced. Are at least some parts interchangeable between US Victor and UK HMV, the spindle, for example, or the entire mainspring barrel, arbor and all?"

The Gramophone Company imported motors from Victor up to the First World War, although at the tie war broke out, they were starting to manufacture motor parts in their own factory and were intending to make complete motors. The war delayed that, and I don't now exactly when they did resume motor manufacture at Hayes, but the post-1918 motors are different from the pre-war models, inline still with Victor designs. So closely did Hayes follow Camden, that American threads were used. There were some diffreneces; for example, the 'sloping governor' motor of 1918-1921 always has 1-inch springs in Hayes models, but Victor made a version of this motor with 1 ¼ inch springs. And i 1920, just before the new No 32 motor came in, Hayes were using up the chassis of the sloping governor triple-spring motor by equipping it with the twin-spring barrel of the forthcoming 32 motor. I don't know if Victor did this -- I suspect not.

[Inigo]

Thanks, very interesting.
In the no 32 and 34 Burton motors, some parts are perfectly interchangeable between American and British motors.

[streetmechanic14]

I don't see how this machine could ever have had a horn much different from what it has now- certainly not one of the later Victor/HMV horns with their heavy iron castings. Because of their weight, those horns required at least one additional machine screw (usually placed in front of the tone arm base). Notice that the machine in question has no such screw. I realize it's risky to assume American practice was followed anywhere else but look at these pictures of an early Victrola horn (1906-07) compared with one of 1909. Your horn looks (to my eyes anyway) much like my early one; almost entirely wood and light enough to be satisfactorily supported by just the three screws in the tone arm base. Yes, a skilled home woodworker could have made your horn, but if that's a cast-iron "collar" at the throat (as it is on mine) it's unlikely any home workshop made that.
-Dave