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 Post subject: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:40 am 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:49 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
Hello everybody.

In the last month I had the chance to find these soundboxes from two different sellers on Ebay: it seemed to me that they were both reasonably priced and in very good condition. Despite my ignorance about I bought them out of curiosity and after some brief checking and testing I must say I do not regret my decision at all.
The Antoria still plays beautifully, and the Goldring is probably only in need of a new gasket and/or tuning of the needle bar, what job I will leave to a professional.
However I would kindly ask for some information about their origin. As far as I know Goldring has been always producing soundboxes (and electrical pick-up later) since its foundation as a german company which moved to Great Britain in between the wars, but what about Antoria? Was it just a brand name put on soundboxes made by other companies?
Apart from the different names, the two boxes look almost identical. The only difference I can tell is that the Goldring has both a rubber band and a metal ring inside the tone-arm socket, while the Antoria has only a rubber band (may be the metal ring is missing?). As a practical consequence the Antoria fits perfectly the tone arm of my HMV 102s, while to use the Goldring soundbox on the same machine I had to remove the metal ring, and even with the rubber band only the fit is extremely snug. At the end of the day, IMHO they seem as quality soundboxes very well worth of being checked and tuned to sound at their best.
I did some research in the forums, but the only thread I was able to find is this one, showing a similar Goldring soundbox:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45578&hilit=goldring

Thank you in advance for any additional information.

p.s.: excuse the bad quality of the photos

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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:30 pm 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3600
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
Antoria gramophones were manufactured by James T Coppock of 61-67 Old Street, London EC1. Selling in the lower price range, they were assembled using bought in components including Garrard motors, but I do not know from whom they obtained their soundboxes. Antoria portables can often be found cheaply on UK eBay.

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/James_T._Coppock

http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs_pages/c ... k_1953.php


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:30 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 188
Hello Paolo, It looks to me that "Goldring" made the "Antoria" soundbox. If you look at the stylus bar and end pivot housings, they look identical to the Goldring one, and the body looks the same. Interestingly enough, The "Antoria" is fitted with a FLAT red rubber front gasket,(the rear gasket would be the usual round one)
I have a Goldring soundbox, and it is good, not the best, but good, and fitted with the FLAT red rubber gasket.


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:06 am 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:49 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
old country chemist wrote:
Hello Paolo, It looks to me that "Goldring" made the "Antoria" soundbox. If you look at the stylus bar and end pivot housings, they look identical to the Goldring one, and the body looks the same. Interestingly enough, The "Antoria" is fitted with a FLAT red rubber front gasket,(the rear gasket would be the usual round one)
I have a Goldring soundbox, and it is good, not the best, but good, and fitted with the FLAT red rubber gasket.


Good morning and thanks to all of you for the answer!

Yes: I thought as well that they could came out of the same company (Goldring) despite the different name, and I also found peculiar the red flat gasket inside the Antoria soundbox. For comparison I removed the cover of the Goldring to check what gaskets are mounted, and they are - as you said - the usual black rubber round type. But to my horror I also discovered that the diaphragm is badly deformed! Now I do hope that it will be possible to restore it to the former shape, or find a compatible spare diaphragm... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:15 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 188
Hello Paolo, What a pity that your diaphragm is damaged-probably due to someone poking their finger in through the hole at the back perhaps. I should think that if the diaphragm was removed, it could, with care, be restored to it's proper shape. You would find it difficult to get a spare diaphragm for your soundbox as it is such an unusual design, BUT another aluminium diaphragm of the same diameter could be used in it's place. A pity you are not closer. If you were, I am sure some of us would be delighted to repair the diaphragm for you. If you gave me the diameter in millimetres, I would have a look to see if I could find one to fit. I noticed that there was no sealing wax on the stylus bar screw that is attached to the diaphragm.

Alastair.


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:10 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1266
Location: Luxembourg
Reading this thread I remembered that I have a Goldring soundbox, so I opened it up to check if it has the same odd diaphragm as Paolo's. As you can see, it is different, of the more common type, but also the soundbox is not identical: this is a Goldring Electric, with a different cover than the above. I never cared to rework mine, as the back rubber ring seems stuck, fixed by a couple of frozen screws, and the soundbox design is quite basic, so I stored it away.


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 188
Carlos- looking at the picture of your "GOLDRING" soundbox. I think the diaphragm has been put into the soundbox back to front. The raised areas of the diaphragm should be facing outwards, not inwards. Perhaps someone in the past has replaced it incorrectly..?


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 1266
Location: Luxembourg
old country chemist wrote:
Carlos- looking at the picture of your "GOLDRING" soundbox. I think the diaphragm has been put into the soundbox back to front. The raised areas of the diaphragm should be facing outwards, not inwards. Perhaps someone in the past has replaced it incorrectly..?


Yes, Alastair, that's probably what happened. It was fitted with PVC wire cover tubes as well, which obviously should not be used in a soundbox. The wrong installation also raises questions about the diaphragm being original, although it has the right dimensions. In any case, it is back in the drawer where it was, maybe I will restore it in the next 10 or 20 years ...


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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:32 am 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:49 am
Posts: 20
Location: Italy
old country chemist wrote:
Hello Paolo, What a pity that your diaphragm is damaged-probably due to someone poking their finger in through the hole at the back perhaps. I should think that if the diaphragm was removed, it could, with care, be restored to it's proper shape. You would find it difficult to get a spare diaphragm for your soundbox as it is such an unusual design, BUT another aluminium diaphragm of the same diameter could be used in it's place. A pity you are not closer. If you were, I am sure some of us would be delighted to repair the diaphragm for you. If you gave me the diameter in millimetres, I would have a look to see if I could find one to fit. I noticed that there was no sealing wax on the stylus bar screw that is attached to the diaphragm.

Alastair.


Hello Alastair,

sorry for being so slow in answering. Your kind words and help are much appreciated, but may be I partly addressed the issue. Yesterday evening I locked myself in my attic cave and in a surge of incredible courage I disassembled the soundbox! Despite what I though at first, the only raised part of the diaphragm is the central area around the needle bar hole: all the rest is supposed to lay flat (or so it should). So I took a small hammer and gently tap around the outer ring insisting on the warped area: somehow I managed to get it flat again. I then proceeded to put in place the diaphragm on the bottom gasket and carefully inserted again the upper one (which had snapped in one point during the previous removal operation).
By the way you were right concerning the needle bar screw: I did not see any wax when unscrewing it, but there was a small remnant of a sticky substance, which I think was put there to prevent the screw from getting loose.
Now the soundbox is assembled again and, while far from perfect, sounds way better than before without that annoying buzz that had alarmed me. The gaskets are not rock hard, but of course have become brittle and lost elasticity, so I expect that a careful replacement of them will lead to further improvement in sound quality. All in all I'm satisfied: may be it's not a top quality soundbox, but at least it's an all original item . By the way: after the "repair" I measured the outer diameter of the diaphragm and found it to be approximately 50 mm.

Thanks again to all for your interest and have a wonderful start into the incoming new year!
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File comment: Diaphragm O.D.
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File comment: Diaphragm in place (gasket cut indicated by the screwdriver)
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 Post subject: Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:48 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:06 pm
Posts: 188
Hello Paolo, you seem to have made a very good job of straightening the warped diaphragm. When it was out of shape, it did not seal well all the round the rubber gaskets. As you say, it is now much better. Once you start adjusting and re-building these soundboxes, you will see that it is quite an easy thing to do, and if you do have any problems, then the forum is the place to ask for more help. I still think it a good idea for you to place a little more sealant on the diaphragm screw, as a good seal there will help reproduction. You say your diaphragm is 50mm in diameter. That is quite a common size. When soundboxes are scrapped, I always keep the diaphragms if they look in good order, and any of the other parts of it that can be taken off the main body. Holding a diaphragm up to a strong light will tell you whether it has any problems with tiny holes in it which can be sealed with a very small amount of sealant, such as beeswax or PVA glue.


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