Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

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Paolo_MK68
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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Paolo_MK68 »

old country chemist wrote:Hello Paolo, you seem to have made a very good job of straightening the warped diaphragm. When it was out of shape, it did not seal well all the round the rubber gaskets. As you say, it is now much better. Once you start adjusting and re-building these soundboxes, you will see that it is quite an easy thing to do, and if you do have any problems, then the forum is the place to ask for more help. I still think it a good idea for you to place a little more sealant on the diaphragm screw, as a good seal there will help reproduction. You say your diaphragm is 50mm in diameter. That is quite a common size. When soundboxes are scrapped, I always keep the diaphragms if they look in good order, and any of the other parts of it that can be taken off the main body. Holding a diaphragm up to a strong light will tell you whether it has any problems with tiny holes in it which can be sealed with a very small amount of sealant, such as beeswax or PVA glue.
Thank you for your appreciation Alastair, it makes me want to proceed and replace the gaskets myself!

May I ask what you would recommend to look for as a replacement? The same natural rubber, or another kind of modern sinthetic rubber would be viable as well? I suppose also that you won't find a gasket with such diameter and thickness ready off the shelf of the nearest hardware store, so one should "build" it himself starting from a rubber cord of the right thickness and gluing its ends together once the correct lenght has been determined.

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by old country chemist »

Hello again Paolo, The rubber gasket that you need is sold on e bay. I think there is the genuine rubber, and the synthetic type as well that is available. If you look online on "e bay", just type in Gramophone gasket or soundbox gasket, and that should let you see what is available. I usually buy mine in a length of 40 inches which is sold by a man in Holland. It costs about 6 English pounds plus a small postal charge. Some of the American sellers of phonograph and gramophone parts sell gasket rubber, but usually as a "kit"mainly for H.M.V. or Victor soundboxes-two lengths of the gasket plus a small piece of beeswax to add some to the stylus to diaphragm screw, which I hope you will not lose as there are several different thread sizes on them. No, do not glue the ends when you have cut the two pieces of gasket to the correct length. That was never recommended, even though I have done so myself! I see the gasket on your "Goldring" is black rubber. Usually "Meltrope no.3" soundboxes used black rubber gaskets, but they were 3.2mm outside diameter, just a bit larger than the normal gasket. It would be a good idea for you to check the outside diameter of the "Goldring" gasket to see what size it is.
Alastair.

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Inigo »

Natural rubber is better, more supple than synthetic product. I've found the synthetic rubber gasket tube top be pretty hard of compared with rubber. Rubber, on the other side, is more perishable, but synthetic rubber is, too, and in a few months it gets still harder.
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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Inigo »

I have also an unbranded British soundbox like yours, pretty much the same, with the same rare diaphragm. I tested it on my hmv101 and on my 127, and it fits perfectly in the narrow tonearm, and gives a more clear and deep sound than the original no.4 mica soundbox. Mine send to have a pot metal back, painted black.
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Inigo

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Paolo_MK68 »

Hello Alastair, thank you for the hint. I think I know the dutch ebay seller you mentioned: some time ago he listed replacement handles for the HMV portables, and they were very well made! I'll have a look!

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Paolo_MK68 »

Inigo wrote:I have also an unbranded British soundbox like yours, pretty much the same, with the same rare diaphragm. I tested it on my hmv101 and on my 127, and it fits perfectly in the narrow tonearm, and gives a more clear and deep sound than the original no.4 mica soundbox. Mine send to have a pot metal back, painted black.
Hello Inigo, this is interesting: I did not think to check whether my Goldring soundbox would fit the HMV 101 tone arm if I leave the additional metal ring inside the socket. I'll give it a try.

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Inigo »

Maybe the backs' necks are different. Mine has no additional rubber nor metal rings. The neck formed on the back is of adequate size to fit the 101, and also the gooseneck instead of the exhibition in the old style tonearms, although here it fits a bit loose.
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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Inigo »

I said before that it sounds better than the mica no4, but I should say it really sounds LOUDER, noticeably in the bass... But the clarity and equilibrium of a well restored and properly tuned no4 mica soundbox is perfect for the 101 and the tabletops 103, 109, 127 and the like. Sometimes I've been using a restored 5B soundbox on my 127, and of course it sounds better than the no4, and the treble and bass sound more clear, but I found it too powerful for that small horn at times, with loud orchestral recordings.
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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by Paolo_MK68 »

Inigo wrote:Maybe the backs' necks are different. Mine has no additional rubber nor metal rings. The neck formed on the back is of adequate size to fit the 101, and also the gooseneck instead of the exhibition in the old style tonearms, although here it fits a bit loose.
I've experimented the fit of my Goldring soundbox on an HMV 101 with and without the inner metal ring. With the ring removed the fit is way too loose, and with the ring is extremely snug so you have to use excessive force to put the soundbox in place on the arm (what I do not like at all). I wonder which tonearm this soundbox was supposed to be compatible with, or if it's only a matter of reducing the thickness of the rubber insert to lower the interference.

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Re: Antoria and Goldring:question on two soundboxes.

Post by poodling around »

Paolo_MK68 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:40 am Hello everybody.

In the last month I had the chance to find these soundboxes from two different sellers on Ebay: it seemed to me that they were both reasonably priced and in very good condition. Despite my ignorance about I bought them out of curiosity and after some brief checking and testing I must say I do not regret my decision at all.
The Antoria still plays beautifully, and the Goldring is probably only in need of a new gasket and/or tuning of the needle bar, what job I will leave to a professional.
However I would kindly ask for some information about their origin. As far as I know Goldring has been always producing soundboxes (and electrical pick-up later) since its foundation as a german company which moved to Great Britain in between the wars, but what about Antoria? Was it just a brand name put on soundboxes made by other companies?
Apart from the different names, the two boxes look almost identical. The only difference I can tell is that the Goldring has both a rubber band and a metal ring inside the tone-arm socket, while the Antoria has only a rubber band (may be the metal ring is missing?). As a practical consequence the Antoria fits perfectly the tone arm of my HMV 102s, while to use the Goldring soundbox on the same machine I had to remove the metal ring, and even with the rubber band only the fit is extremely snug. At the end of the day, IMHO they seem as quality soundboxes very well worth of being checked and tuned to sound at their best.
I did some research in the forums, but the only thread I was able to find is this one, showing a similar Goldring soundbox:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45578&hilit=goldring

Thank you in advance for any additional information.

p.s.: excuse the bad quality of the photos

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Whilst ferreting around in the gramophone room for something else (which as usual I couldn't find) I came across a soundbox which is the same as yours - an Antoria Deluxe.

I thought your observations were very interesting because you mentioned that yours fits an HMV 102 - whilst mine fits an HMV 101.

I noticed that your 'rubber band' is black in colour whilst mine is red. So maybe the different colours were used to easily differentiate between the two different sizes of fittings ?

I haven't played it yet but look forward to doing so tomorrow.
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