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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:25 pm 
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Victor IV
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Those who were seen dancing were thought insane by those who could not hear the music. Nietzsche
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alang wrote:
Enrico, don't the pictures 123 and 124 from the book or catalog also look like the arm was a bit short? ...
Andreas

I think this is the answer.
It's just the way it was made.
A beautiful phonograph!

James.

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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:57 am 
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Victor IV
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
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I agree that the arm featured at page 124 will also never get to the spindle. They were probably careless about tracking at La Voz De Su Amo.

Leave it as is: gramophones with HMV'S tapered tonearm - gooseneck - Exhibition soundbox combo, all have horrible tracking geometry anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:57 am 
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Victor O
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Location: Florence, Italy
alang wrote:
Enrico, don't the pictures 123 and 124 from the book or catalog also look like the arm was a bit short? Could it be that they were made this way, maybe caring more about the beauty of the case then proper tracking? It is a beautiful machine for sure.

Andreas


Dear Andreas,
I also observed the same thing. Especially image 124.
Thanks for your message,
Enrico


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:03 am 
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Victor O
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Roaring20s wrote:
alang wrote:
Enrico, don't the pictures 123 and 124 from the book or catalog also look like the arm was a bit short? ...
Andreas

I think this is the answer.
It's just the way it was made.
A beautiful phonograph!

James.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2021-01-06 at 4.20.31 PM.png


Thanks James, I also agree with Andreas' suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:07 am 
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Victor O
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
I agree that the arm featured at page 124 will also never get to the spindle. They were probably careless about tracking at La Voz De Su Amo.

Leave it as is: gramophones with HMV'S tapered tonearm - gooseneck - Exhibition soundbox combo, all have horrible tracking geometry anyway.


Grazie Marco.

I also think it is appropriate to leave it as I found it.

Are there any documents to learn more about tracking geometry?

Grazie ancora,
Enrico


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:27 am 
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Victor III
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This is a very beautiful machine, Enrico !
And I now start to understand what Marco was talking about when he said he did not particularly like the appearance of the later UK made HMV horn gramophones ( and model 32 in particular).
I had no clue such beautiful original horn gramophones ever was made in Spain, with an obvious connection to The Gramophone Company/HMV. Thanks for sharing the photos !


Last edited by nostalgia on Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:12 am 
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Victor IV
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F. Depero, "Grammofono", 1923.
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am
Posts: 1081
Location: Italy
Enrico wrote:
Are there any documents to learn more about tracking geometry?


Caro Enrico, you will find many interesting pages over the internet about this subject, however you will find a "vintage" essay on this book, which was fully scanned few years ago:

http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/images/ ... s-1929.pdf

The subject is treated from page 121 onwards. Not coincidentally, in figure 48 the HMV tapered tonearm with gooseneck is taken as an example of a "careless" tonearm with no attempt at all at correcting the tracking error.

Another extremely interesting webpage is that by the late Graham Barber - whose death and whose gone website will be never mourned enough in my humble opinion. There is a series of pictures by the end of the page in which tracking error of some gramophones is shown by using a protractor. The HMV tapered/gooseneck is exemplified by a HMV 100 model (top-center). You should be able to see this "photograph" of his defunct website taken by the Wayback Machine archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191221161 ... 4590882209


Last edited by Marco Gilardetti on Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:14 am 
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Victor O
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Enrico wrote:
Are there any documents to learn more about tracking geometry?


Caro Enrico, you will find many interesting pages over the internet about this subject, however you will find a "vintage" essay on this book, which was fully scanned few years ago:

http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/images/ ... s-1929.pdf

The subject is treated from page 121 onwards. Not coincidentally, in figure 48 the HMV tapered tonearm with gooseneck is taken as an example of a "careless" tonearm with no attempt at all at correcting the tracking error.

Another extremely interesting webpage is that by the late Graham Barber - whose death and whose gone website will be never mourned enough in my humble opinion. There is a series of pictures by the end of the page in which tracking error of some gramophones is shown by using a protractor. The HMV tapered/gooseneck is exemplified by a HMV 100 model (top-center). You should be able to see this "photograph" of his defunct website taken by the Wayback Machine archive:

http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/images/ ... s-1929.pdf


Grazie mille Marco!!


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:59 am 
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Victor IV
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Location: Luxembourg
I surely agree with Marco's and James's observations. This indeed is an exhuberant machine! I have seen others similarly colorful and elaborate like Enrico's in the Phonogalerie in Paris, all authentic and in great shape as this one. The tracking issue is inherent to the machine, all HMV of the period were poorly designed from the tracking standpoint, with the radially misaligned soundbox. Fitting a larger soundbox will bring the needle nearer to the spindle, but will not look good. Irrespective of that, a machine worth belonging in any collection!


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 Post subject: Re: La Voz de Su Amo art nouveau gramophone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:04 pm 
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Victor III
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Marco Gilardetti wrote:
Enrico wrote:
Are there any documents to learn more about tracking geometry?


Caro Enrico, you will find many interesting pages over the internet about this subject, however you will find a "vintage" essay on this book, which was fully scanned few years ago:

http://www.gramophonemuseum.com/images/ ... s-1929.pdf

The subject is treated from page 121 onwards. Not coincidentally, in figure 48 the HMV tapered tonearm with gooseneck is taken as an example of a "careless" tonearm with no attempt at all at correcting the tracking error.

Another extremely interesting webpage is that by the late Graham Barber - whose death and whose gone website will be never mourned enough in my humble opinion. There is a series of pictures by the end of the page in which tracking error of some gramophones is shown by using a protractor. The HMV tapered/gooseneck is exemplified by a HMV 100 model (top-center). You should be able to see this "photograph" of his defunct website taken by the Wayback Machine archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191221161 ... 4590882209



I may have completely mis-understood but are you saying that the HMV 100 needle doesn't reach the centre of the turntable, or that it is at the wrong playing angle or both - or nothing of the sort ?
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