EMG Flyers

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IainW
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by IainW »

I think I must agree with Chunny regarding the De Luxe version of the Standard model. The mention of the inlaid cabinet, lid totally enclosing machine when not in use and the significant extra cost would point to it not being the ¾ lid version (at least at the time of publication).
Regarding the date of publication I note that the flyer in question has the Grape Street address, so presumably was issued later than my Mk VIII which has the High Holborn plaque fixed to the motor board.
On page 42 of Franks book the advert for EMG components refers to the 'Standard Wilson Horn' model and the 'Mark 10 Isophonic Horn' model. Could perhaps the use of 'Mk VIII' have been introduced when Mark 10 was changed to Mark X?
Iain

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chunnybh
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by chunnybh »

Horace Balfour Davey designed all the Mark numbers and it is assumed he gave them that numbering system although the early advertisements jump between Arabic and Roman numerals.
Here is the earliest advertisement for the Mk VII (March 1929), followed by a combined ad from October 1929. Note the Mk VIII is still referred to as the Standard Wilson Panharmonic Horn(new type) Model.
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chunnybh
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by chunnybh »

To continue:
An ad from March 1930 where the Mk X has reverted to the Mark 10 (a vindictive Ginn perhaps) and by April 1930 when Ginn had left, it was back as the Mk X.
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IainW
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by IainW »

In the topic 'EMG Mark Numbers' from a couple of years ago Chunny I see you posted a copy of the similar style of advert dated September 1930 which this time includes in the list 'Mark VIII' rather than 'Standard' model. In Oak at £15 and 'with lid' at £20 (No mention of De Luxe). Presumably this is the ¾ lid version.
Could it also be that by 1930 the term 'Standard' had already started to lose some of its cachet. A word that once stood for the standard by which others are judged and 'flying the flag' has today come to mean rather ordinary, as in bog standard.

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chunnybh
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by chunnybh »

September 1930 which this time includes in the list 'Mark VIII' rather than 'Standard' model. In Oak at £15 and 'with lid' at £20 (No mention of De Luxe). Presumably this is the ¾ lid version.
Iain, I believe you are correct. The De Luxe model is the Darrieulat full lid version and I haven't found the term used in flyers or ads for the ¾ lid version.

Here is another flyer for "The E.M.G. Extension and Tone Arm Set for the Wilson Panharmonic Horn". Again it clearly mentions the De Luxe models "fitted with lid which totally encloses the machine when not in use".

The The E.M.G. Extension and Tone Arm Set was designed by Davey and totally revolutionized EMG gramophones. It's interesting that he did not get any of the credit until he was in charge of EMG.

Note mention of the cork mat and the centre lock.
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emgcr
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by emgcr »

Another intriguing flyer I have not seen before. Many thanks again Chunny.

How interesting to find yet more new information and that what we have always considered to be the Deluxe version may not be. I wonder if we shall ever find out how they referred to the partial lid model ? Actually, making such an item in the first place is such a strange thing to do isn’t it since the great enemy---dust---is not wholly catered for but logical I suppose to want to attenuate soundbox chatter---but, again, only partially---before they thought of extending the conduit and designing the horn outlet outside the case, as with the Mk IX, to enable a fully encompassing lid. The design did, of course, allow the Wilson horn to point towards the listener with the lid closed which was probably considered the main benefit. It is ironic that the more expensive Deluxe model did not enable the listener to avoid the soundbox chatter ! In that respect, the partial lid model could be said to be the Deluxe alternative---all rather confusing, as with many things Ginn-associated ! It would be so very interesting to know production numbers but, sadly, such are now lost to the mists of time.

I am also mystified about the reference to “two 12 in.” and “four 12 in” record motor ? I am not sure what is being referred to here ? Could it be two and four spring ? I don’t think we have ever come across a four spring motor installed in an EMG have we (apart from the No.34 in the later HMV/Lumière conversions)? Did the Deluxe models perhaps incorporate an HMV (or other make ?) four-spring motor for example---seems rather unlikely ?

It is also wonderful to see Michael Ginn publishing detailed measurements for customers themselves to make working gramophones together with his advice, although this is qualified by him saying that he thinks clients really ought to leave it to him if they want to get it right ! The statement “The tonearm is set to give a track alignment error of under 2 degrees, but this depends upon the knowledge and skill of the person fitting up the machine” is not really of much use without stipulating the critical measurement of 11 inches distance from tonearm bearing centre to motor spindle centre !

I assume the "adjustable air space resonating chamber" refers to the Quinke tube ?

Eternally fascinating…………

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alang
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by alang »

emgcr wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:51 am
I am also mystified about the reference to “two 12 in.” and “four 12 in” record motor ? I am not sure what is being referred to here ? Could it be two and four spring ? I don’t think we have ever come across a four spring motor installed in an EMG have we (apart from the No.34 in the later HMV/Lumière conversions)? Did the Deluxe models perhaps incorporate an HMV (or other make ?) four-spring motor for example---seems rather unlikely ?
I don't know anything about EMG except what I read here on the forum, so I am purely guessing here. Could it be that one motor was capable of playing two 12 inch records on a full winding and the other could play four 12 inch records? That could translate to a strong one-spring vs. a two-spring motor. Again, just guessing.

Andreas

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emgcr
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by emgcr »

Good thought Andreas and I think you are probably correct--- many thanks.

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Inigo
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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by Inigo »

it was usual in machine catalogs to refer to a one record motor, two, four record motor.. I believe it refers to the sides one can play in a full winding... Indeed, the 4 springs hmv no34 motor is capable of playing six 12"sides in one winding, the tt runs for 20 minutes with no load. I've played six 12"sides with bamboo needles and a counterweight on the crook.
Inigo

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Re: EMG Flyers

Post by Frankia »

Might it refer to the Paillard G255 motor which gets through four twelve inch records on a full wind (I have one here so know that to be true) and one of the Garrard motors or whatever else they used, all of which were probably capable of playing two twelve inch records to a wind?

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