HMV tabletop machine

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
Online
User avatar
drh
Victor IV
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Personal Text: A Pathé record...with care will live to speak to your grandchildren when they are as old as you are
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by drh »

Just checking in and saying a big "thanks!" to all so far. I'm learning a bit about these machines, up to now terra incognita for me. My friend who bought it is very excited about it, and I think I'll refrain from saying anything about the tonearm to him, at least for now. Is the HMV reproducer comparable to the US Victrola No. 4?

User avatar
Inigo
Victor VI
Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:51 am
Personal Text: Keep'em well oiled
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by Inigo »

I see... Drh machine has then also a substituted 10" turntable (sorry for the tt, I'm writing with my mobile phone). The speed lever is too far from the spindle and the turntable doesn't cover it as should do. This machine should have a 12" turntable too. What motor will it have inside?
The Juwell Electro soundbox is similar to the original no4, same as Victor no4 but with plain front, no decoration. But size is larger, so with the original tonearm the needle doesn't rest on the record in vertical position, but slightly scanted, pointing to the record edge. This is not good for the grooves. But now that the tonearm is not the original, who knows!
Good to your friend is that original hmv parts are easy to find, but their cost will sum up...
A delicate matter to tell your friend... If it's his first machine, he'll enjoy it anyway. But tell him to ask before buying, next time... ! Too many substituted parts for a pretty common machine, easily found complete and in good order... :?
Inigo

Online
User avatar
jamiegramo
Victor III
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:52 am
Location: St. Albans, UK

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by jamiegramo »

The models 107, 108, 103 & 109 all had 10” turntables. None were fitted with 12” turntables even though the 108 and 109 had double-spring motors.

The 108 is normally found with the older style turntable without the beaded edge however the photo shows a late 108 with beaded edge turntable so there may be a crossover.

The 108 theory I suggest is the most plausible explanation I can think of for someone changing the tonearm. As epigramophone has pointed out this part is not easily broken. However the tracking error is pretty bad on the gooseneck tonearms found with the exhibition & no.2 soundboxes and this can show up on electrically recorded records. There is also the limitations of these soundboxes compared to the no.4.

User avatar
poodling around
Victor V
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 am

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by poodling around »

52089 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:45 am
poodling around wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:36 am
Inigo wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:27 am Did the early 109 bear a10" tt? The machine drh shows has a 10" tt...
What is a 'tt' please ?
Turntable

Thanks !

Oedipus
Victor II
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:59 am

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by Oedipus »

The plinth moulding is the clearest indication that this is either a 108 or a 109, not a 103 or 107. The tone-arm is certainly wrong, and I agree that the most likely reason is that someone has updated a 108. This can be determined by taking out the motor board: a 108 has a simple, cast iron horn painted golden brown, but a 109 has a folded zinc horn, matt black or very dark brown in colour in colour.

The No 4 sound box is similar to the Victor equivalent in design, but the only Victor ones I have seen were entirely pot-metal, whereas this HMV No 4, being an early one, is entirely of brass. (It is identifiable as an early one by the fact of the lettering being in front, visible through the mica).

CarlosV
Victor IV
Posts: 1835
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by CarlosV »

Oedipus wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:07 am
The No 4 sound box is similar to the Victor equivalent in design, but the only Victor ones I have seen were entirely pot-metal, whereas this HMV No 4, being an early one, is entirely of brass. (It is identifiable as an early one by the fact of the lettering being in front, visible through the mica).
The early Victor 4's had also a brass body. The most noticeable difference with respect to the HMV 4, besides the stepped body, is the diaphragm, the Victor 4 was made with an outer silver-colored disc around the mica, but to my ears such difference is only visual.

Online
User avatar
drh
Victor IV
Posts: 1212
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Personal Text: A Pathé record...with care will live to speak to your grandchildren when they are as old as you are
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by drh »

Hi, everyone, and thanks for the further info and discussion.

My friend wrote to me and had a question about maintenance. I don't have a good answer for him, since I usually let certain experts (both relatively local to me and both TMF members--you know who you are! ;) ) take care of mechanical work, rather than inflicting my own limited skills on my machines. If I may, I'd like to throw his question open to the others with experience here:

"Just a question about the platter bearing of my HMV: it is a bit noisy, I assume the grease is old. Do I need to dismantle it entirely to lubricate?"

Any and all guidance will be greatly appreciated, and I'll pass it on to where it needs to go!

User avatar
nostalgia
Victor IV
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Personal Text: Keep winding up
Location: My gramophone repair room

Re: HMV tabletop machine

Post by nostalgia »

Well, I guess it depends on what we call "noisy". If your friend never had an acoustic machine, they will of course always appear noisy compared to modern electric gramophones. Noisy is also a relative term, but what I can say from experience is that the 32 motor found in this machine also can become very clogged with old grease, and that will create the typical bumps in the motor etc. I have so far serviced 4 HMV motors, and all of them needed servicing, even if 2 of them were able to play through a record, these machines had never been serviced and the gears, springs/cylinder, and governor parts all needed a total clean up before it was re greased and oiled. Noise appearing to come from the platter bearing/spindle, is of course because this area has a direct connection to the motor....
A 32 motor is quite a rough motor to service, in particular because of the double spring, where the two springs lie on top of each other in the cylinder. The lower spring can be both tricky to release and re install, if one is inexperienced with these motors. These springs also are very powerful and it takes some power and experience to release and install them safely. I myself serviced quite a few single spring motors before attacking a 32 motor. There are however videos on youtube that shows the process, step by step, videos that I used myself when teaching myself to service the HMV/ Victrola motors...and later on passed the knowledge on to servicing other motors.
Good luck.

Post Reply