When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

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Steve
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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by Steve »

nostalgia wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:31 am Jerry, I have had the same feeling about this oak model 156, I need strip it, and then use a wood dye to add the correct color. The problem I had earlier with HMV cabinets are that light sand papering does not help much, I need get rather deep to remove the coating, if not the new layer of dye will not attach and it all looks horrible. On my cabinets, where I have stripped motor boards, and sometimes the lid, I have used Liberon Dark Oak Spirit Wood Dye. I watched the late Graham Barber using this product in his videos after stripping the lid of a cabinet. He was using a shaving blade to strip the lid, but myself I have now turned to carefully using a grinder, to avoid destroying my hands and fingers on the tedious work. Last summer I also stripped a complete light oak Odeon cabinet the same way, and it worked well. One has to be careful though, as Steve also reminds, to not get through to the veneer.

If someone has a good tip for the upper cover (Shellac/varnish/lacquer) that makes it shine a bit, after using Liberon Spirit Wood Dye, I will be happy to receive it, and it must be a product available in continental Europe. I had a extremely hard time getting Howard's Products into Scandinavia, it was constantly stopped in the customs worldwide because it is flammable, but at one stage I was able to get 4 bottles into Scandinavia ( Dark oak, and two shades of Mahogany, and Golden Oak), and they have saved my restoration work for sure.

Steve, I am here pasting the information taken from the UK supplier of Howard's Products: Restor-A-Finish® is a unique finish penetrating formula that contains a small amount of stain combined with just the right amount of solvent and restoring oils, giving it the ability to permanently restore the existing finish without removing, softening, or stripping it. Restor-A-Finish penetrates faded lacquer, shellac and varnish to bring back the original colour and lustre. It restores the depth of grain, going much deeper than temporary “scratch cover” products. Restor-A-Finish® penetrates and permanently restores most wood finishes without removing any of the existing finish. Restor-A-Finish® works best when applied with a small pad of cloth or for severe white rings or oxidation a super fine (#0000) Steel Wool also available from our website. For carved surfaces, you may use a small paintbrush or soft toothbrush. Never pour Restor-A-Finish® directly onto the finish.

There are 9 colours to choose from if you are not sure of the colour you need please get in touch and we will send you our brochure which has a colour chart so that you can best match the finish you want to restore.

Follow up with Howard Feed-N-Wax or Citrus-Shield paste Wax to help maintain the newly restored finish.
Photos of the product are on the suppliers website: https://www.justpuddingbasins.co.uk/

Update: I am adding a photo of my HMV 145. On the photo it has just received Liberon Wood Dye Dark Oak, on the top lid. This was my first machine, bought back in 1990, but the lid always looked terrible before I decided to strip it last summer, while the rest of the cabinet looked very good. (there is a big lamp in the ceiling with yellow light that makes the lid look a bit yellowish, while it is really impossible to see a color difference from the rest of the cabinet) As we can see the color matches well the rest of the cabinet. However, a top layer has also not been added to the machine, again because I am not sure what product would be best to use. I know it it possible to get shellac in a solution that is said to be easy to add on, since I have no experience adding shellac the original way.

Update 2: I finally found and ordered a product this morning that I will try to use for a top layer, after using the Liberon spirit wood dye on stripped cabinets. I am posting a photo of the bottle, and will also post photos after using it on my cabinets. :geek: It will be very interesting to see how it works.
Thank you for the information! So Howard's is basically the same thing as Topps Scratch Cover but just with added hype?! :roll:

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

I don't know Topps scratch cover, so I can't comment on it. I spent a long time last summer reading about such products, and the name Howard's came up often, also from antique restorers. You will find tons of feedbacks on the products on Amazon US, when checking just now their Wax'n Polish has over 25000 reviews. I first bought one bottle of the Restor-A-Finish, that are available in many colors and shades, and ended up with 4...no actually 5, so I guess this means I am happy. I am actually also adding a cover of it on top of the Libereon wood dye after using that product. That is maybe adding fat on grease, but I am happy with the result, and the product are long lasting.
There are of course also many videos on Youtube, and I watched quite many before ordering the first bottle. It is cheap to use really, so I have no complaints. Before using it I tested Liberon ring remover, but it did nothing for my products, and it also was more expensive.
On the US side of the forum, I think there are quite many members using the products too. As long as I am happy with it, and have not found anything better, I will keep on using it..and now test this new shellackpolityr to see if it adds the last shine and depth, before adding wax ( where I again use the Feed'n wax from Howard)

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

Okay, now it is done. I have stripped my first HMV cabinet, the oak 156. :shock: The finish were all gone, and something had to be done to this cabinet, I am also adding a photo, also shown on page 1 on this thread, to show how it looked before being sand papered down.
I am uploading several photos. Since I have not discovered how to add text to photos since the forum was changed, I am posting twice.
In this first post, you can see the cabinet before being stripped (bottom photo), and also the cabinet after it has been stripped (next three photos).

The upper 5 photos show photos of the cabinet after it has been stained. As we can see the Liberon dark oak is somewhat lighter than the original dark oak in the interior of this HMV cabinet.
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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

And here is the end result, after adding two layers of the shellack solution shown on page 1. This is the first time I have tested such a solution, the only thing missing now, is to add a layer of wax on top of the cabinet. I also added one layer of shellack to the interior and the legs of the cabinet.
There is a color difference, but apart from it I am happy with the result.
Any inputs, comments, negative or positive...or suggestions are as always welcome. I would have liked to find an exact color match, but the Oberon Dark Oak Spirit Wood Dye, have been the only reference I have been able to find as reference, when looking at stains to use on HMV oak cabinets.

And yes...it is tempting to also strip the board that surrounds the tone arm...
And the feet, but it is impossible to use a grinder down on those feet....I don't know if a paint stripper will work...liquid? I have never used one.
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Steve
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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by Steve »

The problem you have with stripping the cabinets is that you invariably leave some of the original finish behind that remains invisible to the eye. Sanding is ineffective; the colour has to be pulled out with chemicals. The new wood dyes do not penetrate oak veneer enough unlike they would with say a piece of softwood.

You then get those patchy areas which show up when a finish is re-applied over the top.

No one to my knowledge has ever successfully replicated the look or colour of whatever HMV and others companies used on their oak or mahogany cabinets. The colour was in the finishing material, not the timber / veneer. Thats the problem anyone has when refinishing today. You simply cannot get that depth of colour build with anything on the market today.

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

Steve, do you think Liberon stripper will be able to remove the old original wood dye used on the feet? It is impossible to sand paper the feet really.
I would like to get the machine even colored, if possible.
If it works with Liberon chemical stripper, I will also apply that on the inside of the lid, and in the horn area, to at least make the machine have an even color.

Update: There is only one way to find out, trying Liberon stripper. If it works, the machine will at least have an even color, and look good, even if it is not original. The original finish was anyway totally destroyed, so something had to be done. I will post photos when finished, so we can see the end result.

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

So, now I have stripped the rest of the cabinet (including the feet) with sand paper, no chemical paint stripper. 16 work hours later, the result is on the photo. In addition to the products shown on photo earlier in the thread,( 2 layers of Liberon Spirit Wood Dye, 2 layers of Shellach liquid solution), I also added Howard's Feed'n Wax as the last cover. There is now not much more I can do for the machine, apart from buying two decals from Peru, since the decals, that also was torn, did not survive well the transformation.
I have now lost count of how many hours I have spent on the machine.
It will be hard to sell it though, I will never get paid for the hours laid down in work, and I also now like it, a lot, even if it has been stripped. It also plays like a charm :geek: :squirrel:
Photos are showing part of the process during the last two days, and end result.

I now sit here with two 156 cabinets, I have decided to sell one, and keep one. Which one would you sell, the mahogany original, or this stripped down dark oak machine?
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Last edited by nostalgia on Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by Inigo »

It looks splendid. Congratulations!
The better payment for your work is your own satisfaction of things well done, and the enjoyment you'll obtain from the machine. Use it a couple years, and after that, if you still want to sell it, try to get a fair price. But forget about the pains and hard work... It will speak for itself, let it do! :)
Think how could it have ended in the fire, not have you come across it! You saved a beauty for long years to come!
Inigo

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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you, Inigo. Yes, I will try to find space for it, even if I really don't know what machine to sacrifice at home :?

But I also have this choice to make..which newly restored Model 156 to keep. I am posting both here, so you can see them both in the same post. The mahogany model has been carefully sanded to remove some scracthes on the doors and on the top lid, but has not been stripped, only cleaned, and adding Howards Restor-A Finish and wax.
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Re: When not too often seen HMV's come in pairs..

Post by Inigo »

Beautiful couple!
Inigo

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